Deangelo Williams a free agent afte this season

[1789Cardiac Cats9020]

Everything Stewart can do, WIlliams can do, but Stewart cannot do everything WIlliams can do. Stewart isn't as effective in the open field or as good a blitz pickup as WIlliams. In fact, Wililams is one of the BEST in the league at picking up a blitz. If you watch the tape, you see him literally lift the blitzer off the ground in his blocks. I think we will keep Williams, but I don't see us letting Stewart walk either, we might trade Stewart, but we won't let him go for nothing.

[Snake]

Everything Stewart can do, WIlliams can do, but Stewart cannot do everything WIlliams can do. Stewart isn't as effective in the open field or as good a blitz pickup as WIlliams. In fact, Wililams is one of the BEST in the league at picking up a blitz. If you watch the tape, you see him literally lift the blitzer off the ground in his blocks. I think we will keep Williams, but I don't see us letting Stewart walk either, we might trade Stewart, but we won't let him go for nothing.

Being a little harsh on Stew in his first year dont you think? Stewart was a far better Rookie then Dwill was. With that said I do expect Stewart to be as good or better then Dwill in time. The thing is both are really Pro bowl RBs so its like splitting hairs when you say who is the best.

[SmootsDaddy89]

Well you were so sure Williams is gonna be over the hill his next contract that I wanted to point out to you that we have two starting back not one and they both carry the load. If Williams keeps getting better it would be crazy to let him go. Kinda like not resigning Smith after he got the Triple crown because he was about to turn 30. Also its not all that easy to get a good back cause most are hit or miss. Look at Cadillac Williams great back but cant stay on the field.

No, we do not have two starting running backs. We have one. Deangelo Williams. He started every game and had almost 100 more carries than Stewart. Regardless of what he might say publicly, I'm quite sure Jonathan Stewart knows he isn't the starter or half of a starter or anything like that.

Also uh, Steve Smith was 26 when he was re-signed after getting the triple crown in 2005. But hey, don't let factual inaccuracies detract you from the point you're trying to make which is irrelevant anyway. Steve Smith, on average, gets about one-third of the amount of touches Williams got last year. Running backs take more hits and therefore wear out faster than receivers. So please do not pretend that receivers take as much punishment year in and year out as running backs do. If you want to make a comparison, think Stephen Davis. Came here in 2003 when he was 29. He had ONE good year and was done after that.

You're right in that we may not be able to find a great running back to replace D-Will right away. But that doesn't mean need to resign him at all costs either. If we give him a huge deal, we lose Stewart. Period. Whether we lose him because he wants a chance to go somewhere where he can be the feature back, or even if he becomes the feature back here; he's going to want more money than we be able to give him. I realize people don't want to think about this, but we almost certainly are going to have to make a choice between Deangelo and Stewart. Stewart is four years younger than Williams. Put aside your adoration for Deangelo and realize it's not in our franchise's best interest to give him the big contract and not Stewart.

[SmootsDaddy89]

Everything Stewart can do, WIlliams can do, but Stewart cannot do everything WIlliams can do. Stewart isn't as effective in the open field or as good a blitz pickup as WIlliams. In fact, Wililams is one of the BEST in the league at picking up a blitz. If you watch the tape, you see him literally lift the blitzer off the ground in his blocks. I think we will keep Williams, but I don't see us letting Stewart walk either, we might trade Stewart, but we won't let him go for nothing.

Right Williams is great in goal line situations, which is why he got the majority of the carries on first/second and goal. Oh fug that's right, Stewart got those.

[Guest Phalic0192]

How long have the Panthers waited to find a franchise RB? Since their inception. It's still a little early to declare either of them that but it does look like one of them will be.

People forget that the cap increases around 6% a year. I would almost guarantee that if DeAngelo runs for 1500/15 next year, his new contract will be ready before next years draft, just like with Gamble and Gross.

SmootsDaddy is right though. Age is a big concern with Rb's. Only your elite players can be effective past 30. I can only project that DeAngelo is in the prime of his career from 26-29 y.o.

When and if its Stewart's turn to carry the load, I wouldn't be surprised if another 1st round rb is drafted under Fox. The man loves to run the football and knows he needs the most talent possible to be effective. And its always better to have two of everything.

Everyone should just enjoy the show that is our rb situation, it's going to be a good one.

[rayzor]

Right Williams is great in goal line situations, which is why he got the majority of the carries on first/second and goal. Oh fug that's right, Stewart got those.

ummm....stewart only got 9 carries (7 TDs) from inside the 5 compared to williams 13 (8 TDs).

for rushing plays started inside the 5 or ended inside the 5:

williams had 35 turning 18 into TDs (51.4%).

stewart had 26 with 10 getting turned into TDs (38.5%).

for plays that started inside the 20 (the red zone)

williams 42 carries, 13 TDs, 31.0%

stewart 36 carries, 9 TDs, 25.0%

[SmootsDaddy89]

6 of those touchdowns and 9 of those attempts came in two games in which Stewart was hurt for the majority of the game: Giants and Packers. And neither the Packers nor the Giants were playing well against the run. Hell, Jake Delhomme had a one yard touchdown run against the Packers too. The fact that we had no other options besides Williams in goal line situations in those two games does not mean we would have used him regardless.

Look at games like Minnesota and Chicago (who happened to be two of the top run defenses in the league last year) where Stewart was specifically sent in on goal line situations because of his strength and power running. To claim that Williams has the same body strength as Stewart is absurd.

[rayzor]

didn't say he had the same body strength anymore than you called williams a wuss.

you said that stewart was used more in goal line situations than williams. i showed that wasn't the case.

and when stewart was used in those situations specifically could it be that it was because williams had just ran the ball down to that point and they wanted someone who wasn't winded to run it in?

williams handled goal line work just fine and will be doing it more next year.

point is, we don't have one back who is a power back and one that is a scat back. we have two backs who can do it all and did it all last year. we have two starting caliber backs who will be sharing the load next year. stewart will be getting a few more carries and williams likely a little less.

[Snake]

No, we do not have two starting running backs. We have one. Deangelo Williams. He started every game and had almost 100 more carries than Stewart. Regardless of what he might say publicly, I'm quite sure Jonathan Stewart knows he isn't the starter or half of a starter or anything like that.

Also uh, Steve Smith was 26 when he was re-signed after getting the triple crown in 2005. But hey, don't let factual inaccuracies detract you from the point you're trying to make which is irrelevant anyway. Steve Smith, on average, gets about one-third of the amount of touches Williams got last year. Running backs take more hits and therefore wear out faster than receivers. So please do not pretend that receivers take as much punishment year in and year out as running backs do. If you want to make a comparison, think Stephen Davis. Came here in 2003 when he was 29. He had ONE good year and was done after that.

You're right in that we may not be able to find a great running back to replace D-Will right away. But that doesn't mean need to resign him at all costs either. If we give him a huge deal, we lose Stewart. Period. Whether we lose him because he wants a chance to go somewhere where he can be the feature back, or even if he becomes the feature back here; he's going to want more money than we be able to give him. I realize people don't want to think about this, but we almost certainly are going to have to make a choice between Deangelo and Stewart. Stewart is four years younger than Williams. Put aside your adoration for Deangelo and realize it's not in our franchise's best interest to give him the big contract and not Stewart.

Keep hanging on to your delusions cause the truth is its a Two back system and everyone will tell you that. Oh and BTW Smith was 28 when he signed his contract and thats a year less then Dwill when he is a FA. See the thing is you would let LT,Thomas Jones,Brian Westbrook, and Fred Taylor go because they are in there late 20s and 30s we all of them are good backs. :frown2:

[Snake]

didn't say he had the same body strength anymore than you called williams a wuss.

you said that stewart was used more in goal line situations than williams. i showed that wasn't the case.

and when stewart was used in those situations specifically could it be that it was because williams had just ran the ball down to that point and they wanted someone who wasn't winded to run it in?

williams handled goal line work just fine and will be doing it more next year.

point is, we don't have one back who is a power back and one that is a scat back. we have two backs who can do it all and did it all last year. we have two starting caliber backs who will be sharing the load next year. stewart will be getting a few more carries and williams likely a little less.

This dude is never gonna get it no matter how much info you give him. He is gonna keep digging till he its china before he will admit wrong. :banghead:

[SmootsDaddy89]

didn't say he had the same body strength anymore than you called williams a wuss.

you said that stewart was used more in goal line situations than williams. i showed that wasn't the case.

and when stewart was used in those situations specifically could it be that it was because williams had just ran the ball down to that point and they wanted someone who wasn't winded to run it in?

williams handled goal line work just fine and will be doing it more next year.

point is, we don't have one back who is a power back and one that is a scat back. we have two backs who can do it all and did it all last year. we have two starting caliber backs who will be sharing the load next year. stewart will be getting a few more carries and williams likely a little less.

Honestly this last paragraph is really exactly how I feel, and that's all I meant in my original post to what's his face. I guess in my admittedly assholish and sarcastic tone it probably came off like I think Stewart's awesome in goal line situations and on third-and-one and Williams sucks, but that's not it at all. We have two legitimate all-star RBs who can do it all. (which is partially why I'm trying to drive it into the thick heads of people like snake fist guru whatever that it's going to be insanely difficult to keep them both without mortgaging our future) But I do think Stewart is probably better when it comes to running inside, getting those tough yards, etc. Deangelo is better when it comes to pure elusiveness on the field.

[SmootsDaddy89]

Keep hanging on to your delusions cause the truth is its a Two back system and everyone will tell you that. Oh and BTW Smith was 28 when he signed his contract and thats a year less then Dwill when he is a FA. See the thing is you would let LT,Thomas Jones,Brian Westbrook, and Fred Taylor go because they are in there late 20s and 30s we all of them are good backs. :frown2:

lol so I just realized you meant Smith's 2007 extension, even though you said it was right after he won the triple crown, which was in 2005. To give you an idea of how badly your two inconstant statements threw me off, I started spouting off about Smith's 2004 extension when he was 25, even though that was before he even won the triple crown.

Now that we're on the same page, allow me to elaborate on how you're STILL wrong. Besides the fact that you unsurprisingly ignored how I carefully explained the difference between the punishment a running back takes and the punishment a wide receiver takes, the extension Steve Smith signed in 2007 is completely different from the contract Deangelo will likely command in 2011.

Smith had three years left on his contract when he signed the 2007 extension. He was due to make 27 million over the next three years. His extension made it 6 years and 45 million. To save you the trouble of doing basic math, failing, and then punching your monitor and having to go out and buy a new one, we basically got Smith for another three years for the paltry sum of 18 million dollars.

If Deangelo were to sign a three year, 18 million dollar contract, I'd be fine with that. But he most likely wont accept a lowball offer like that, and I don't blame him. Let me give you some numbers here to give you an idea of what to expect. In 2004 LT got an 8 year, 60 million deal. Last year, the Raiders signed Darren McFadden to a 6 year deal worth the same amount of money. In 4 years, the average yearly salary for a top-tier (I know McFadden hasn't done poo, but they gave him that contract because they drafted him so high EXPECTING him to be top-tier) running back in the nfl jumped from 6.5 million per year to 10 million per year. Now yes, the Raiders are really stupid and Deangelo might not be able to get that much because he will be 28. But paying him 8-10 million per year over 6-8 years is probably what we're looking at. J-Stew would likely command a similar contract, especially if he becomes the starter before his rookie contract runs out. If we somehow signed them both, we could have as much as 140-160 million dollars in two players. I believe that's more than we had in our all-pro defensive line after 2002.

And I don't know if you've been paying any attention, but the Jaguars DID let Fred Taylor walk. Actually, they released him which is even worse. LT and Westbrook both had down years compared to years past. And Jones probably only has another year, two at the most, of good seasons left in him. Hell, even Emmitt Smith's last good year was when he was 30. After that his touchdowns and rushing yards steadily decreased each year. It's not like I'm fuging pulling the number 30 out of my ass, most backs don't do well past that age.

I'm honestly pretty certain at this point that you have absolutely no clue what the hell you're talking about, and in order to save face, you say "two back system" in every post. Like that's some sort of wrench in the gears of my argument and changes the fact that I've destroyed every single "point" you've tried unsuccessfully to make while you sit there drooling and typing out almost word for word what you've said before. Please point out in any of my posts where I directly said "the two back system sucks and we don't need it because J-Stew can do it all!" I'll save you the trouble of reading (which I really don't think you do that either) by telling you I didn't. I love having a two back system. But if we put so much money into that part of our philosophy that we have no cap space to improve any other part of the team, then it becomes counter-productive. Stewart, along with a cheap backup, (as long as he's productive on the field) or another draft pick(s) if we so choose could execute the two back system just fine. Do you think that the Giants are going to fall off the face of the fuging Earth as a franchise because they let Ward go? No, they were smart enough not to drop a bombshell of a contract just to keep Ward when Jacobs is younger and already their main guy. As long as we have a Bradshaw of our own in place, there's no reason to break the bank for Williams with a much younger Stewart waiting in the wings.

[scpanther22]

like i have said i dont think we will let williams contract go up in 2011 i think we will resign him before them..a huge 4 year deal next year

[panthers55]

like i have said i dont think we will let williams contract go up in 2011 i think we will resign him before them..a huge 4 year deal next year

If next year is uncapped it might make sense to lock up our starters and renegotiate some contracts giving them a huge salary next year, a smaller signing bonus and smaller salary moving forward instead of the other way around. Typically we want to defer the big bucks until later and perhaps trade or cut them before we have to pay. In this case it might be good to pay them alot next year when it is uncapped and much less when it is capped again the following year.

Just a thought.