Panthers drafted no significant contributors

[Sloth]

Seriously, I did. The Pats don't make excuses, why should we? They have guys plug holes and still win. Why should we be any different? If excuses make you feel better, that's fine. I used that as an excuse too (I did that year) until I realized championship calibre teams don't make apologies for failure.

We just drafted a ton of depth (last year and this year), which is what we need to ride out seasons full of injuries and to try and stay competitive (like the Pats).

If you don't blow some picks on quality depth, that's when the injuries murder your chances, provided you draft well. And we seem to be drafting pretty well lately.

[rayzor]

What's not addressed by the article nor the comments in this thread is that the Panthers have come to a point of being able to do what many elite teams do, that being taking a preemptive approach to drafting.

Not everybody who was drafted this year was geared at filling a current need (logical with a majority of starters returning). Some were drafted to fill future needs, and those players will be developed so that when the time is right for them to step in, they'll be ready.

Take Richard Marshall as an example. He wasn't a direct need at the time he was drafted, but he's had a few years to get ready and now he's stepping in for departed Ken Lucas. This is the kind of thing that allows teams like the Steelers and Patriots to lose guys on a yearly basis and just plug the next guy in. The ideal is for us to get to that point as well.

If you don't take that into account, you can't really evaluate the full effect of the draft.

excellent point.

[Sloth]

What's not addressed by the article nor the comments in this thread is that the Panthers have come to a point of being able to do what many elite teams do, that being taking a preemptive approach to drafting.

Not everybody who was drafted this year was geared at filling a current need (logical with a majority of starters returning). Some were drafted to fill future needs, and those players will be developed so that when the time is right for them to step in, they'll be ready.

Take Richard Marshall as an example. He wasn't a direct need at the time he was drafted, but he's had a few years to get ready and now he's stepping in for departed Ken Lucas. This is the kind of thing that allows teams like the Steelers and Patriots to lose guys on a yearly basis and just plug the next guy in. The ideal is for us to get to that point as well.

If you don't take that into account, you can't really evaluate the full effect of the draft.

This is a very good post, as was p55's earlier in the same vein (regarding RB)

[panthers55]

Seriously, I did. The Pats don't make excuses, why should we? They have guys plug holes and still win. Why should we be any different? If excuses make you feel better, that's fine. I used that as an excuse too (I did that year) until I realized championship calibre teams don't make apologies for failure.

When did they have 14 guys on IR and still make the playoffs? Hell they didn't make it last year with Brady hurt.

Great example Einstein.

[ncbobcat]

14 players on IR. freak year in that regard but built back after starting off 1-7 (due to the enormous amount of injuries) and barely missed getting in the playoffs. saints beat us by 3 points and if we had won that game we would have been back in.

but what you are saying is that because we haven't done it before we aren't going to be able to do it now....that it is an objective point of view (to believe that we can't do something that we haven't done before ) ... that we didn't make the improvements that you thought we should make and that the front office made wrong calls according to you and this "pundit" that you have attached yourself to for some odd reason so we are now bound to have a less than winning year.

thanks....:seeya:

We HAVEN'T done it before, that's the point. Name the seasons we've gone to back-to-back playoffs. *crickets*

Does that mean this year will be a failure? No, but it does mean if the front office rests on the fact that the team returned realitvely 'intact', then surely success will come with only minor tweeks; a rude awakening may occur.

Of course they don't think this way because Hurney and Fox always talk about upgrading the talent. I just so happen to believe that our draft wasn't a homerun. Certain positions could have been contested by rookies had the draft gone down differently.

I am just stunned that most of you are riding the wave of contentment. When this team is a perinnial contender, then I'll stop questioning the moves of this organization. Actually questioning the vailidity of an article that dares not glow upon the frachise is like heresy from what I'm finding out.

[Liminy]

What do you think about that draft? That was not improbable, not in the least.

Tell me which starters of ours you would replace with your choice of draft picks that would instantly do better. Also a 7th rounder with a year or two of experience under his belt IMO isn't considered a 7th rounder in the sense of the term.

[panthers55]

We HAVEN'T done it before, that's the point. Name the seasons we've gone to back-to-back playoffs. *crickets*

Does that mean this year will be a failure? No, but it does mean if the front office rests on the fact that the team returned realitvely 'intact', then surely success will come with only minor tweeks; a rude awakening may occur.

Of course they don't think this way because Hurney and Fox always talk about upgrading the talent. I just so happen to believe that our draft wasn't a homerun. Certain positions could have been contested by rookies had the draft gone down differently.

I am just stunned that most of you are riding the wave of contentment. When this team is a perinnial contender, then I'll stop questioning the moves of this organization. Actually questioning the vailidity of an article that dares not glow upon the frachise is like heresy from what I'm finding out.

no one is content. Did you forget how the season ended? None of us have either.

But given the picks we have and the cap issues and lack of draft picks, we did pretty good. Some of us just aren't bitchin and do the "woe is me" game like you are. we are taking a wait and see approach since they are the experts not us or you.

[ncbobcat]

When did they have 14 guys on IR and still make the playoffs? Hell they didn't make it last year with Brady hurt.

Great example Einstein.

Do you really want me to go back and look at the 14 players? I bet only a few were starters. Before I do, you may want to back down.

Remember, the Pats had Troy Brown, their WR play corner because they lost their top 5-6 DBs. I know it was a playoff year and it may have been the year they beat us in 2003 for the Championship.

Again, what ever makes you sleep better.

Yeah, it was a great example because they were only the SECOND 11-5 team in NFL history to miss the playoffs, there, Einstein.

[mantal]

We HAVEN'T done it before, that's the point. Name the seasons we've gone to back-to-back playoffs. *crickets*

Does that mean this year will be a failure? No, but it does mean if the front office rests on the fact that the team returned realitvely 'intact', then surely success will come with only minor tweeks; a rude awakening may occur.

Of course they don't think this way because Hurney and Fox always talk about upgrading the talent. I just so happen to believe that our draft wasn't a homerun. Certain positions could have been contested by rookies had the draft gone down differently.

I am just stunned that most of you are riding the wave of contentment. When this team is a perinnial contender, then I'll stop questioning the moves of this organization. Actually questioning the vailidity of an article that dares not glow upon the frachise is like heresy from what I'm finding out.

There are two ways to look at the situation, optimistic or pessimistic. You're being pessimistic while others are being optimistic. Personally, I think this is the time of year for optimism, 32 team's fans are being that way. There's plenty of time for pessimism when 14 players get injured and we are in a downward spiral. You're taking a hit from the optimists, don't get upset, it's as it should be for this time of year.

Just because they haven't done it before is a silly reason to think they won't do it this year. Just silly, don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your opinion, but we're entitled to ours too...

[top dawg]

In that the best case scenario---which is an indicator of a very well run, efficient organization---rookies aren't drafted to make immediate significant contributions, at least not in "the perfect world." Bottom line, I'd bet at least three of our guys will be solid contributors within a couple of years.

That's good.

Many may disagree, but I believe that our team had the talent to do a lot more damage to the opposition than it did last year, and that the failings of last season were to a large degree were a result of failures on the sidelines. That being said, the team really did not have to draft immediate impact players to do a lot of damage this year. Of course, many scouts absolutely say that E. Brown will make an immediate impact, and if he does it's gravy.

If relatively recent drafts are a good indicator (especially to you guys trying to make an argument about "history"), I would bet my money on the fact that the FO knows what it's doing, rather than give some credibility to a sports rag.

[ncbobcat]

There are two ways to look at the situation, optimistic or pessimistic.

...don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your opinion, but we're entitled to ours too...

I agree this team can be very good. I just so happen to believe it can be even better.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions, I just didn't think the thread would be so one sided. I expected most to think the status quo was fine, but not everyone. I did look up the poll on the draft grades for this forum and most people did give the draft a 'B' with several 'As' thrown in there. I guess that is why I am meeting so much resistance about the impact (or potentially lack of) our rookie class.

[ncbobcat]

no one is content. Did you forget how the season ended? None of us have either.

we are taking a wait and see approach since they are the experts not us or you.

I haven't forgot and the reason I want some improvements over last year's team.

The wait and see approach makes message board fodder so much fun, especially in May.

[Urrymonster]

Okay, here is what I would have done assuming all things equal (teams still picking who they picked and we still traded with SF to move up in the 2nd, which still would have been needed for my first pick).

2a) Fili Moala-DT USC

2b) Paul Kruger-DE Utah

3rd) Juaquin Iglesias-WR OSU

4a) Lawernce Sidbury Jr.-DE Richmond

4b) Andre Brown-RB NVSU

5th) Duke Robinson-OG (value too much to ignore despite motivation question)

7th) A.Q. Shiply-C/OG Penn State

What do you think about that draft? That was not improbable, not in the least.

Ser iously bud.

It's amazingly easy to pick up the best players available at needs after the draft has played out and we know where everyone got picked.

Real time though is ridiculously hard. You need to gauge how fast postion runs are, then determine which position will have better value in later rounds, so that you can take the optimal position in the current round.

So say we take Fili with our first pick. We essentially are saying that we do not feel we can get any better value in the draft at DT and that our other needs (pass rush, nickel, Oline depth, 3rd running back) have value stocked up into later rounds.

The problem with this is that this draft class was just plain awful for DTs. So any one picked up past the first two, would be reaches in relation to other positions talent pools and fairly poor value. It also means that we have to play a gamble that our more pressing need of a pass rush is in the hands of the Gods as other teams get a huge swing at the premier players.

So whilst your draft makes great sense, you simply can't go back and say - we should have done this!!! You can only judge it on the immediate reactions. Only two picks we made were met with slight skepticism, Martin and Irvine. Looking into it though, those players were much more suited to our schemes than the more 'coveted' players.

As others have pointed out, we are genuinely following the mould of the Pats and Steelers. We draft for two years time. We draft for future impact players. We draft to be self sufficient and not rely on free agency to get our impact players. This simple fact disregards the article and your angle. We were looking for players who could do specific things and then build those players into the complete package. As it is we WILL see Brown come in on obvious passing situations, allowing him to have a HUGE impact on our pass rush. Martin, if he wins the nickel positon, will see HUGE playing time as our nickel see's the field nearly as much as our starters. Goodson could be our Reggie Bush type, so if he pans out we could have a new position in our offense and a potential game changer. Fiammata and Duke are clear picks for the future, as the vets in front of them can groom them. If they do not pn out, then we can simply keep that vet around for a bit longer.

At the end of the day though, this article, the one which you seem to take for gospel is pure speculation. He makes big assumptions that the reason these players will be impact players, is because they will manage to win the starting role. Chances are, a ton of the players he has picked out, will not even see the field.

[mantal]

I agree this team can be very good. I just so happen to believe it can be even better.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions, I just didn't think the thread would be so one sided. I expected most to think the status quo was fine, but not everyone. I did look up the poll on the draft grades for this forum and most people did give the draft a 'B' with several 'As' thrown in there. I guess that is why I am meeting so much resistance about the impact (or potentially lack of) our rookie class.

Well, you know this is the time for optimism like I said. If you're negative at this time of year, then IMO there's no need to continue into the season, but to each his own. No problem... :cheers2: