Panthers drafted no significant contributors

[Sloth]

-Brown: Pass rush specialist or every down end? If Peppers isn't on the field, he'd better be an every down guy.

-Martin: Safety to corner; hard transition. I like all the physical tools though I'm not sure he'll make that switch fluidly. Still an interesting prospect.

-Irvine: I did not like the Irvine pick at that time; too little, too late. DT help was needed in the 2nd.

-Goodson: A pure speed guy... not sure what type of player he'll be. Maybe he'll pan out or else he'll be another Carter.

-Fiammetta: Solid player, but I don't like burning draft picks on FBs. I think only two were drafted...PLENTY of UFAs t choose from.

-Robinson: Liked the pick until it came out that he isn't a devoted football guy. I know he was rated the #2 OG, but there is a reason players fall and I didn't know why until the lack of passion was questioned by scouts.

-Munnerlyn: What can you say...the guy has heart but is severely undersized and with the holding rules like they are now, he can't compete. That one rule alone made Ricky Manning Jr. go from awsome nickel to nearly obsolete.

Martin - It was either him or Smith at that spot. Smith is a physical specimen, Martin is a more physical player. I wanted Smith at the time, did some research and like this pick more now than then.

Irvin - I didn't like him, but there wasn't anyone much better at that pick. As for DT in the second, BPA. Brown is BPA all day long at that spot.

Goodson - Boom or bust guy. Has a ton of talent, but some coaching issues and his numbers went down every year. I'd be more concerned if he was going to be our #2, but he's pretty much just gotta replace Goings. He should be an upgrade.

Fiametta - I don't like throwing picks at FBs either, especially when ours is pretty good and has a few years left, so I sorta agree here. BPA probably, and could really pay off down the road as he has time to learn and get better. The more time goes by, the more I warm to this one.

Robinson - He's almost a perfect fit for our OL style. He's better in the run game than pass game, he's huge and he plays mean which we need more of. He's also going to be surrounded by some very high character guys who work hard. He also has the benefit of not needing to jump in the fire right away, barring injury to Vincent.

Munnerlyn - 7th round pick. Again, even if all he does is ST for the rest of his career, we did good with that pick, because you need ST guys too. I'm not a USC homer and I don't think he's serious competition for the nickle, but he does have some upside as a gunner/returner and emergency/dime CB.

The truth is we didn't really have a ton of holes, other than depth this year. This was a bad, bad year for DT and we didn't have a first rounder due to Otah. Our biggest off-season loss was Hangartner, who was a (awesome) reserve.

[Frizzy350]

No, I'm looking for debate about whether people agree with the guy or not. He's saying we got no starting talent this year out of the draft. I agree to the extent of the Peppers situation as it may pertain to Brown. Outside of that, we got reserve players because that is the TALENT we got. I think it is asinine to say that you draft reserve players, you draft players with the hope of them being starters. Now, where the article falls short is what happens to our players beyond their rookie year.

I think we are not solid at all 22 spots on the offense and defense. Most positions yes, all...no.

And to the poster that pointed out the 95%, actually it's 95.45455%. I understand you rounded though.

whoa whoa whoa, i thought we were wondering if we got any immediate contributors, but now it's been changed to talent/potential? make up ur mind broski

[panthers55]

-Brown: Pass rush specialist or every down end? If Peppers isn't on the field, he'd better be an every down guy.

-Martin: Safety to corner; hard transition. I like all the physical tools though I'm not sure he'll make that switch fluidly. Still an interesting prospect.

-Irvine: I did not like the Irvine pick at that time; too little, too late. DT help was needed in the 2nd.

-Goodson: A pure speed guy... not sure what type of player he'll be. Maybe he'll pan out or else he'll be another Carter.

-Fiammetta: Solid player, but I don't like burning draft picks on FBs. I think only two were drafted...PLENTY of UFAs t choose from.

-Robinson: Liked the pick until it came out that he isn't a devoted football guy. I know he was rated the #2 OG, but there is a reason players fall and I didn't know why until the lack of passion was questioned by scouts.

-Munnerlyn: What can you say...the guy has heart but is severely undersized and with the holding rules like they are now, he can't compete. That one rule alone made Ricky Manning Jr. go from awsome nickel to nearly obsolete.

-Brown is just the kind of guy that Meeks has turned into stars. Plus we still have Johnson, Brayton and Taylor in the rotation. With Peppers here we actually have a strong DE rotation. Brown was known for having a non stop motor which makes him capable of every down. This year the linebackers will be making more running play stops so his run defense won't be the issue it would have been with Trgo.

-Martin is a safety which is what Meeks will use him for. In his sytem they use safeties in the nickel slot and more zone coverage rather than man. He is aphysical guy which is exactly what they wanted.

-Irvine-wasn't my favorite pick either but i will wait to see what he does in camp and the preseason.

- Goodson- will provide depth at running back and might take his crack at special teams/KR etc. Can't have enough running backs in our system and we may need an eventual replacement for Williams if he wants too much at free agency time. You heard it here first.

-Fiammetta- great pickup. As many middle round picks as we have wasted over the years, he seems like a real find. In a running offense like our he is a steal.

Robinson- If he turns out to be decent he will be worth the pick. How many fifth rounders do we have starting for our team anyway.

Munnerlyn- Again the kind of guy who may not be a shutdown corner but within a system can go very well. Meeks is a system kind of guy. Again what do you expect in the 7th. If he makes the team he was a good pick.

Was it a great draft? Who knows but we have at least 3 future starters and several contributors right away. Exactly what we wanted.

[mantal]

-Brown is just the kind of guy that Meeks has turned into stars. Plus we still have Johnson, Brayton and Taylor in the rotation. With Peppers here we actually have a strong DE rotation. Brown was known for having a non stop motor which makes him capable of every down. This year the linebackers will be making more running play stops so his run defense won't be the issue it would have been with Trgo.

-Martin is a safety which is what Meeks will use him for. In his sytem they use safeties in the nickel slot and more zone coverage rather than man. He is aphysical guy which is exactly what they wanted.

-Irvine-wasn't my favorite pick either but i will wait to see what he does in camp and the preseason.

- Goodson- will provide depth at running back and might take his crack at special teams/KR etc. Can't have enough running backs in our system and we may need an eventual replacement for Williams if he wants too much at free agency time. You heard it here first.

-Fiammetta- great pickup. As many middle round picks as we have wasted over the years, he seems like a real find. In a running offense like our he is a steal.

Robinson- If he turns out to be decent he will be worth the pick. How many fifth rounders do we have starting for our team anyway.

Munnerlyn- Again the kind of guy who may not be a shutdown corner but within a system can go very well. Meeks is a system kind of guy. Again what do you expect in the 7th. If he makes the team he was a good pick.

Was it a great draft? Who knows but we have at least 3 future starters and several contributors right away. Exactly what we wanted.

Spot on...

[panthers55]

In other words, returning the majority of a roster form a previous playoff year doesn't necessarily mean instant success the next season or improvements can't be made. We didn't follow up the 2003 season with a Super Bowl in 2004, heck, we didn't even make the playoffs!

Seriously you went there............

I guess 13 guys on IR didn't figure into it including Smitty, Davis, Jenkins and a slew of others.

I got news as well. If we lose 13 guys to IR this year we won't be going deep in the playoffs this year either. We will likely be better off than we were then but no team can survive that and make the playoffs. Just ask New Orleans.

[PowerlessDan]

The rep glitch is back. Holy crap Mintal!

[ncbobcat]

Martin - It was either him or Smith at that spot. Smith is a physical specimen, Martin is a more physical player. I wanted Smith at the time, did some research and like this pick more now than then.

Irvin - I didn't like him, but there wasn't anyone much better at that pick. As for DT in the second, BPA. Brown is BPA all day long at that spot.

Goodson - Boom or bust guy. Has a ton of talent, but some coaching issues and his numbers went down every year. I'd be more concerned if he was going to be our #2, but he's pretty much just gotta replace Goings. He should be an upgrade.

Fiametta - I don't like throwing picks at FBs either, especially when ours is pretty good and has a few years left, so I sorta agree here. BPA probably, and could really pay off down the road as he has time to learn and get better. The more time goes by, the more I warm to this one.

Robinson - He's almost a perfect fit for our OL style. He's better in the run game than pass game, he's huge and he plays mean which we need more of. He's also going to be surrounded by some very high character guys who work hard. He also has the benefit of not needing to jump in the fire right away, barring injury to Vincent.

Munnerlyn - 7th round pick. Again, even if all he does is ST for the rest of his career, we did good with that pick, because you need ST guys too. I'm not a USC homer and I don't think he's serious competition for the nickle, but he does have some upside as a gunner/returner and emergency/dime CB.

The truth is we didn't really have a ton of holes, other than depth this year. This was a bad, bad year for DT and we didn't have a first rounder due to Otah. Our biggest off-season loss was Hangartner, who was a (awesome) reserve.

Okay, here is what I would have done assuming all things equal (teams still picking who they picked and we still traded with SF to move up in the 2nd, which still would have been needed for my first pick).

2a) Fili Moala-DT USC

2b) Paul Kruger-DE Utah

3rd) Juaquin Iglesias-WR OSU

4a) Lawernce Sidbury Jr.-DE Richmond

4b) Andre Brown-RB NVSU

5th) Duke Robinson-OG (value too much to ignore despite motivation question)

7th) A.Q. Shiply-C/OG Penn State

What do you think about that draft? That was not improbable, not in the least.

[rayzor]

In other words, returning the majority of a roster form a previous playoff year doesn't necessarily mean instant success the next season or improvements can't be made. We didn't follow up the 2003 season with a Super Bowl in 2004, heck, we didn't even make the playoffs!

14 players on IR. freak year in that regard but built back after starting off 1-7 (due to the enormous amount of injuries) and barely missed getting in the playoffs. saints beat us by 3 points and if we had won that game we would have been back in.

but what you are saying is that because we haven't done it before we aren't going to be able to do it now....that it is an objective point of view (to believe that we can't do something that we haven't done before ) ... that we didn't make the improvements that you thought we should make and that the front office made wrong calls according to you and this "pundit" that you have attached yourself to for some odd reason so we are now bound to have a less than winning year.

thanks....:seeya:

[bleys]

No, I'm looking for debate about whether people agree with the guy or not. He's saying we got no starting talent this year out of the draft. I agree to the extent of the Peppers situation as it may pertain to Brown. Outside of that, we got reserve players because that is the TALENT we got. I think it is asinine to say that you draft reserve players, you draft players with the hope of them being starters. Now, where the article falls short is what happens to our players beyond their rookie year.

I think we are not solid at all 22 spots on the offense and defense. Most positions yes, all...no.

And to the poster that pointed out the 95%, actually it's 95.45455%. I understand you rounded though.

I'm pretty sure you got it. This entire thread has voiced their opinion about the guy and his article. I'm not sure what else you're looking for.. lol

We have drafted well and have a year for most of our players to get used to the NFL and our system, I think that's a great thing. Just because some writers, or fans, think we haven't drafted well this year doesn't mean a whole lot. Let's see if our Scouts saw something we football non-guru's didn't see.

Are you seriously bringing up '04 in this thread? 17 starters were injured that year... For the last time, I don't care who you are, where you come from, how great you think your team is... They will not win poo under this circumstance. You should be ECSTATIC that we even went 7-9 that year... I don't know why more people aren't. Throw in '07 as well, please do. I'm happy as hell we did as good as we did...

If we have 17 starters injured this year, chances are great that we'll have another inconsistent year.

The difference? We aren't bringing back a pooload of injury prone players like in recent years... So we'll have to wait to see what happens in the season...

You have been given your debate.. lol

[ncbobcat]

Seriously you went there............

I guess 13 guys on IR didn't figure into it including Smitty, Davis, Jenkins and a slew of others.

I got news as well. If we lose 13 guys to IR this year we won't be going deep in the playoffs this year either. We will likely be better off than we were then but no team can survive that and make the playoffs. Just ask New Orleans.

Seriously, I did. The Pats don't make excuses, why should we? They have guys plug holes and still win. Why should we be any different? If excuses make you feel better, that's fine. I used that as an excuse too (I did that year) until I realized championship calibre teams don't make apologies for failure.

[Sloth]

Okay, here is what I would have done assuming all things equal (teams still picking who they picked and we still traded with SF to move up in the 2nd, which still would have been needed for my first pick).

2a) Fili Moala-DT USC

2b) Paul Kruger-DE Utah

3rd) Juaquin Iglesias-WR OSU

4a) Lawernce Sidbury Jr.-DE Richmond

4b) Andre Brown-RB NVSU

5th) Duke Robinson-OG (value too much to ignore despite motivation question)

7th) A.Q. Shiply-C/OG Penn State

What do you think about that draft? That was not improbable, not in the least.

2b)

I think that Brown and Martin are a better fit and are better athletes than Moala/Kruger. I don't think Moala would have been a second rounder if this years DT class hadn't been so sketchy. I loved Kruger though, another motor guy. Brown, as long as the FSU curse doesn't attach to him has a much bigger upside than Kruger. With Meeks on board, the Brown pick fits like a puzzle piece.

I do like your draft (especially Kruger, Robinson, Shipley), but noticed you didn't address the nickle CB position. I'd rather have injected some talent there from the second round, especially as Marshall was really up and down last year and next on the depth chart was CJ Wilson.

[rayzor]

the pats lost 14 guys on their roster to IR?

[rayzor]

I think that Brown and Martin are a better fit and are better athletes than Moala/Kruger. I don't think Moala would have been a second rounder if this years DT class hadn't been so sketchy. I loved Kruger though, another motor guy. Brown, as long as the FSU curse doesn't attach to him has a much bigger upside than Kruger. With Meeks on board, the Brown pick fits like a puzzle piece.

I do like your draft (especially Kruger, Robinson, Shipley), but noticed you didn't address the nickle CB position. I'd rather have injected some talent there from the second round, especially as Marshall was really up and down last year and next on the depth chart was CJ Wilson.

don't question the bobcat...he has spoken. those are the right picks...not what the panthers did. catch up.

[Mr. Scot]

What's not addressed by the article nor the comments in this thread is that the Panthers have come to a point of being able to do what many elite teams do, that being taking a preemptive approach to drafting.

Not everybody who was drafted this year was geared at filling a current need (logical with a majority of starters returning). Some were drafted to fill future needs, and those players will be developed so that when the time is right for them to step in, they'll be ready.

Take Richard Marshall as an example. He wasn't a direct need at the time he was drafted, but he's had a few years to get ready and now he's stepping in for departed Ken Lucas. This is the kind of thing that allows teams like the Steelers and Patriots to lose guys on a yearly basis and just plug the next guy in. The ideal is for us to get to that point as well.

If you don't take that into account, you can't really evaluate the full effect of the draft.