A GM thread

[thefuzz]

who was the right pick then? and did you honestly throw a fit at the time and say fug you Hurney I hate you for drafting Stewart, Willians, Beason and Davis?

Didn't like the Davis and Stew picks, and yes I threw things.

Liked the Beason pick.

Was so so on the Williams pick.

IMO you do not have to use first round draft picks to find runningbacks. That is a position that can be had later in the draft, and for less money.

In the first you go after QB's, LT's, DT's, CB's, DE's etc. Rarely are those positions found later in the draft, but every now and again you can get one.

RB's and LB's are found all over the draft board.

[panther4life]

Didn't like the Davis and Stew picks, and yes I threw things.

Liked the Beason pick.

Was so so on the Williams pick.

IMO you do not have to use first round draft picks to find runningbacks. That is a position that can be had later in the draft, and for less money.

In the first you go after QB's, LT's, DT's, CB's, DE's etc. Rarely are those positions found later in the draft, but every now and again you can get one.

RB's and LB's are found all over the draft board.

In 2005 you did not like the Davis pick and would have preffered a QB,LT,CB,DE. Well Fox never ever wanted anything to do with a rookie a QB. If he did maybe we could have had Aaron Rodgers. We also were set at DT with Buckner and Jenkins. In 06 we replaced Buckner with Kemo.

The years you mentioned we had Gross at LT.

We also had Ken Lucas and Chris Gamble at corner.

We had Julius Peppers and either rucker or Charles Johnson at DE.

Aside from 2008 we had Jenkins

So that leaves a DT over Stewart in 08. Stewart went 13th overall. A DT did not come off the board until pick 29 and it was Kentwan Balmer. I'll take Stewart thanks.

And just to be thorough the next DT was Trevor Laws at 47. No where near the first round did any DT come off the board that year.

See what I mean by looking at things objectively now?

[iampantherman]

And here's a 'rubber meets the road' question. Since 2002, the rosters produced by the Steeler system have faced one losing season and one 500 season. Every other year they've been in the playoffs. Two of those years they won the Super Bowl and two others they were in it.

Now tell me, what's the Panthers record in that time period?

Do you really wanna compare their roster building system and ours? And remember if you do that this is a team which doesn't go after big free agents and even lets a fair share of their own walk if their contract demands are too high.

This is absolutely the essence of my problem with Hurney. You can get lost in the "fine print" all you want, but there is no defending a GM of a team with our on-field results. Unfortuantely my problem with Hurney is, by extension, a problem with JR- who isn't going away. While he is our owner, we will rarely find ourselves competing for anything meaningful. (other than high draft picks. ;) )

[mwright350]

I'm not sure JR is taking as active a role in every single thing we do as we think he is.

I could be wrong but it's not like he is the GM like you see with Jerry Jones and his ilk.

It's very possible that Hurney (and his staff) is taking the "we want to build through the draft" philosophy that he was given and utterly failing at executing it. You CAN build a good team through the draft without spending like Dan Snyder in free agency. But it takes a good scouting department and a GM with a mind for drafting talent (who will also listen to the scouting department). Our drafts are almost universally terrible to luke-warm and we are terrible at finding the diamond in the rough type talent that you need to make this philosophy work. To me that falls directly on Hurney's shoulders.

We also have a history of being slow to react to the changing meta-game of the NFL. As the league moved to a passing league we stuck with the old school run the ball all the time mentality and failed to draft a suitable replacement for our mediocre quarterback / a compliment to our one stellar receiver. Our defense also failed to adapt to the fact that we're in a passing league. Safeties and Corners are as critical now as they have ever been and we are bereft of significant talent at those key positions. Especially being in a division with Atlanta (best receiving duo in football right now?) and Drew Brees this is unforgivable.

JR's culpability in this is that Hurney is still here. IMO at least.

[thefuzz]

In 2005 you did not like the Davis pick and would have preffered a QB,LT,CB,DE. Well Fox never ever wanted anything to do with a rookie a QB. If he did maybe we could have had Aaron Rodgers. We also were set at DT with Buckner and Jenkins. In 06 we replaced Buckner with Kemo.

The years you mentioned we had Gross at LT.

We also had Ken Lucas and Chris Gamble at corner.

We had Julius Peppers and either rucker or Charles Johnson at DE.

Aside from 2008 we had Jenkins

So that leaves a DT over Stewart in 08. Stewart went 13th overall. A DT did not come off the board until pick 29 and it was Kentwan Balmer. I'll take Stewart thanks.

And just to be thorough the next DT was Trevor Laws at 47. No where near the first round did any DT come off the board that year.

See what I mean by looking at things objectively now?

Yes I do, and I still disagree with the picks. You don't look at the next year when you are the GM, the next year should be taken care of already because you don't want to play rooks at big time positions.

You have to look at the next 5 years and stick to your plan. Hurney was not doing this.

Again, I take the BPA, unless it's a damn running back.

I wouldn't have taken Trent Richardson this year even though he was BPA.

I just think that the NFL had devalued the position so much that it's dumb to take them high.

Same can be said for 43 LB's.

[broseidon]

Am I the only one that thinks Rivera is less the mediocre?

[Fox007]

Phew... thats a close one,I thought your were going to annoint another player a probowler again like you did with Fiametta and Mcclain.

The irony in this post.

Fan: These guys are going to be good!

GM: I drafted these busts

OtherFanDefendingGM: Haha you thought someone the GM drafted was going to be good.

BTW Great job proving how the Steelers draft better than we do, even though you were trying to argue the other way. That's always nice.

[panther4life]

The irony in this post.

Fan: These guys are going to be good!

GM: I drafted these busts

OtherFanDefendingGM: Haha you thought someone the GM drafted was going to be good.

BTW Great job proving how the Steelers draft better than we do, even though you were trying to argue the other way. That's always nice.

Zod thing was just firing back at him dereailing the thread.

The Steelers draft's are not what make them better than us. Its coaching.

[panther4life]

Am I the only one that thinks Rivera is less the mediocre?

I agree with you so far. Hopefully he can change our minds.

[Fox007]

Zod thing was just firing back at him dereailing the thread.

The Steelers draft's are not what make them better than us. Its coaching.

GM Hires the coach.

You can pile on the coach all you want, I personally think Rivera is an idiot.

We also have issues at the very top of the organization. There is enough suck to go around when talking about the panthers.

[panther4life]

GM Hires the coach.

You can pile on the coach all you want, I personally think Rivera is an idiot.

We also have issues at the very top of the organization. There is enough suck to go around when talking about the panthers.

I have acknoledged who hired him. Unfortunately JR had him shopping in the bargain bin for coaches when he settled for Rivera. Fox was the right man for the job all the way through 08. At that point he should have been fired but JR was not about to pay a coach to not work.

The Fox/Hurney joint effort did a good job taking over a 1-15 team and leading them to a record of 56-40, 1 superbowl appearance, 2 nfc championship's and 3 playoff appearances from 03-08.

[Fox007]

I have acknoledged who hired him. Unfortunately JR had him shopping in the bargain bin for coaches when he settled for Rivera.

So in conclusion, Hurney does suck, but so does pretty much everyone else involved.

[Cyberjag]

Here's a fun GM question!

Who preceeded Hurney as GM, how did he get the job, and who else did we try and hire?

No fair peeking at Wikipedia or Panther archives. You either know or you don't. :)

[panther4life]

So in conclusion, Hurney does suck, but so does pretty much everyone else involved.

Pending how you look at it, yes. The orginization as a whole has a record of 125-147 since its inception.

Before Hurney it was 70-112.

So if you look at the record as a whole with or without Hurney this franchise has sucked.

If you dig deeper and try to find out why Hurney has struggled, it all begins in 09 and bottomed out in 2010. We appeared to be rebounding but who knows for sure at this point.

I hold a head coach and GM accountable together for better or worse. The Hurney/Fox era is water under the bridge imo.

The Rivera/Hurney era has given reason for hope but still nothing on the win column to firmly say we have arrived. I think its fair to give them 3 years total if they prove they deserve it this year. If they fail to do so this year, then fug it I won't object to starting over again.