Defense getting pushed around...

[Cape Fear Cat]

One of my biggest concerns at the moment is how the defense is getting pushed around. I don't mean it in a figurative sense, but literally against the run the pile moving 5 yards and our guys getting knocked back. I can't remember a time when this happened as often.

The most troubling thing is that our guys are no less strong or heavy as in the past, but it seems to be an attitude. The defense reacting more instead of dictating, allowing the will of the offense to push the pile forward.

What will it take for these guys to get angry?

That's what I've been seeing too. I firmly believe there needs to be a mean streak, a nastiness that craves good old smash mouth play. Think guys like Conrad Dobler, or Dick Butkis. It can cover a lot of sins.

[carolina-chuck]

SD was only good for 1 out of his 3 years as DC and Chicago is just as good without him as it was with him which leads me to believe their success had more to do with the system and players than anything he did.

The problem with the Panther's D right now is they need strong direction and I just don;t see them getting it.

I can't help but think the Rivera's first mistake was not hiring a strong DC - or at least someone who had a proven track record. All he got with McD was someone who had already failed in his one attempt.

Exactly.

And Herm Edwards was available at the times, choose McDermott. Herm is a very charismatic guy.

[Darth Biscuit]

I agree, but you might want to be carefull with that thought. I called for a coach to show emotion on the sideline and I got blasted for it. pantherclaw might get angry again because he feals that "as a grown man, having another grown man yell, scream, cuss, doesn't do anything to inspire me, or show me that he is a true leader of men."

I personally feel that you get what you allow. Rivera may be more vocal in the lockerroom or at practice, but at times, it's needed on the sideline. Kinda like raising kids, you can discipline them at home, but sometimes they WILL test you outside of the home. A quick, deliberate response to show your stance works best. Yes you can wait, but it's less effective.

I certainly don't believe that players respond to a coach that yells at them constantly... but at the same time, when a player screws up, there is a time to yell and let players know that a bad job won't be tolerated, and I have yet to see Rivera do anything like that. Not saying he hasn't, but I haven't seen it.

[CRA]

Yea, I'd say the bears defense covered a lot for Rivera when he was there. That was a great D. Why'd you think Lovie Smith didn't extend Rivera and why the bears are still playin a high level of defense now?

And for SD, he was really just great for one year. And it was based off on statistics. If you go back and watch that season, SD defense wasnt as good on the field as it was on paper.

Rivera's last year they were #1 in pts and #2 in points.

Bears haven't been close to that. They have been middle of the road since. I mean compared to us they are a high level performing D.

As far as SD....they were great. ST is what cost them games and pts.

[Udogg]

SD was only good for 1 out of his 3 years as DC and Chicago is just as good without him as it was with him which leads me to believe their success had more to do with the system and players than anything he did.

The problem with the Panther's D right now is they need strong direction and I just don;t see them getting it.

I can't help but think the Rivera's first mistake was not hiring a strong DC - or at least someone who had a proven track record. All he got with McD was someone who had already failed in his one attempt.

no.

[rayzor]

I certainly don't believe that players respond to a coach that yells at them constantly... but at the same time, when a player screws up, there is a time to yell and let players know that a bad job won't be tolerated, and I have yet to see Rivera do anything like that. Not saying he hasn't, but I haven't seen it.

it all depends on how effective they are with the approach they have and the amount of respect shown and perceived to the player under-performing.

i have always done much better at motivating and directing people when i kept from raising my voice. there were occasions that i felt it was necessary to get loud, but that was in dealing with people under extreme emotional distress or in danger of some kind. usually i do just fine getting my point across without yelling. i have also rarely seen people respond favorably to yelling and have never found it to be useful at all in motivating me.

unless it's bootcamp in the military (where the purpose is to break down individuals and make them more receptive to direction) i just don't see yelling being any better than any other mode of motivating or leading...in fact i think it's rather weak, tbh, if used very often. at best and at most it should only ever be used intermittently.

[Darth Biscuit]

it all depends on how effective they are with the approach they have and the amount of respect shown and perceived to the player under-performing.

i have always done much better at motivating and directing people when i kept from raising my voice. there were occasions that i felt it was necessary to get loud, but that was in dealing with people under extreme emotional distress or in danger of some kind. usually i do just fine getting my point across without yelling. i have also rarely seen people respond favorably to yelling and have never found it to be useful at all in motivating me.

unless it's bootcamp in the military (where the purpose is to break down individuals and make them more receptive to direction) i just don't see yelling being any better than any other mode of motivating or leading...in fact i think it's rather weak, tbh, if used very often. at best and at most it should only ever be used intermittently.

...and I completely agree. I don't think a coach that constantly yells and berates is necessarily effective... but one that just stands there in the face of mistakes isn't either.

[Chaos]

Theres no such thing of a Pro Bowl player with a chip on their shoulders if that's what you're looking for. Maybe a 15 yr vet may have something to prove.

It's nothing with the attitude of the players on D. The problem is the coaching.

James Harrison? Clay Matthews? Ray Lewis? Brian Urlacher?

[Chaos]

...and I completely agree. I don't think a coach that constantly yells and berates is necessarily effective... but one that just stands there in the face of mistakes isn't either.

Petrino comes to mind with his short-lived tenure in the NFL.

[panfan32]

Was a 4-3 with a HEAVY emphasis on blitzing. The year he was fired his Philly team was still top 3 in generating turnovers....with a weak roster.

Problem is McD is in Carolina not running the aggressive scheme he was taught. I am sure that is on Rivera.

Thanks. I could not remeber which it was. I just know they mya have been top on turn overs, however they also got burnt alot. Call me crazy, I would have stayed with Ron Meeks as the DC. Our offense sucked but the defense was doing pretty good under him after the second season. Ron may noit have been the long term answer, put the players we have was drafted/signed for that typoe of defense. Not the kind we are running now.

Also I agree with another persons comments, our players are making mistakes. Jon Beason has not looked like the same player so far as he was before his injury. However, it could just be rust and lack of time in the new season. Also I know everyone is ranting and raving about our Rookie LB. He looked good in preason, now its like watching a different player all together.

[CRA]

Thanks. I could not remeber which it was. I just know they mya have been top on turn overs, however they also got burnt alot. Call me crazy, I would have stayed with Ron Meeks as the DC. Our offense sucked but the defense was doing pretty good under him after the second season. Ron may noit have been the long term answer, put the players we have was drafted/signed for that typoe of defense. Not the kind we are running now.

Also I agree with another persons comments, our players are making mistakes. Jon Beason has not looked like the same player so far as he was before his injury. However, it could just be rust and lack of time in the new season. Also I know everyone is ranting and raving about our Rookie LB. He looked good in preason, now its like watching a different player all together.

.

You need create talent and coaching to line up and stop teams. McD didn't have talent to stop teams when he left Philly....scheme generated a to of turnovers....and u can't ask for much more than that.

[cranky]

Rivera's last year they were #1 in pts and #2 in points.

Bears haven't been close to that. They have been middle of the road since. I mean compared to us they are a high level performing D.

Bears have been a top 10 defense every year cept for 09 according to FootballOutsiders.com and in the last 3 years (this year included) they were ranked 3rd, 4th and 4th. Hardly middle of the road.

As far as SD....they were great. ST is what cost them games and pts.

In Rivera's first year, 09, they ranked 22nd. In his second year the defense ranked 23rd. His last year was a good one though as they ranked 7th.

So he had 1 good defense in 3 years with SD and Chicago hasn't lost a step without him.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like Chico. I think he's honest, upfront and holds people accountable. I just have to wonder if he was the right man to rebuild the franchise.

[CRA]

Bears have been a top 10 defense every year cept for 09 according to FootballOutsiders.com and in the last 3 years (this year included) they were ranked 3rd, 4th and 4th. Hardly middle of the road.

In Rivera's first year, 09, they ranked 22nd. In his second year the defense ranked 23rd. His last year was a good one though as they ranked 7th.

So he had 1 good defense in 3 years with SD and Chicago hasn't lost a step without him.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like Chico. I think he's honest, upfront and holds people accountable. I just have to wonder if he was the right man to rebuild the franchise.

Just picking a year...

2007 - Chicago - 26th in yards, 16th in points, 13th in takeaways.

That isn't judged as a top 10 D with how it is widely evaluated

[rayzor]

...and I completely agree. I don't think a coach that constantly yells and berates is necessarily effective... but one that just stands there in the face of mistakes isn't either.

it all depends on what they do when the crowds aren't around and i'm not naive enough to think that what we see on tv or at games is all there is to the picture. a lot of stuff happens in that lockerroom or in meetings or in practice that we just don't see.

some leaders will save the extreme corrections of under-performers for when they aren't in public or around others. when you berate in front of others it shows a lack of discipline on your part and makes you out to be more of a bully than anything. that's just a kind of leadership i find on the whole really unproductive and lacks team building.