These refs have got to go

[JawnyBlaze]

One more time. The call on the field was a touchdown. The review process cannot overturn the call on the field.

Say what? The entire point of the review process is to see if a call on the field needs overturning...It was under 2 minutes, meaning refs can decide to review it...it was called a TD, meaning refs MUST review it.

[thatlookseasy]

I disagree. If anything, the refs are far more replaceable with enough time and money into training and development than the players or any other group involved. The problem with what we have right now, the replacement officials, is the league didn't have enough time to invest the money into training and development. One of the sticking points is that the refs don't want to allow the NFL to be able to invest the time and money into developing a "minor league" of officials that the league can call up replacements from.

You can claim the refs are easily replaceable, but we seem to be watching overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You cant just pick up some random high school/ small college refs and throw them into the fuging NFL.

If this ref lockout was about improving the quality of officiating, then they have failed miserably. If you wanted to do that, you have to go out and pay top dollar for some experienced D-1 refs, not hire some clueless idiots.

[thatlookseasy]

The NFL clearly fuged this situation up, and should have at the very least taken some steps to mitigate the terrible officiating that they knew was coming. Why not do something like expanded replay where more calls can be made in the booth (you would need a quicker way to talk to the guys on the field though). At least make some effort so it looks like you care about the quality of the product on the field

[JawnyBlaze]

You can say the same thing about players, coaches, anything. Put some random high school/small college players in there with only a few months to prepare and see how it goes. The ref lockout was never about improving the quality of officiating in the short term, obviously. I believe it will in the long term, though. That is, if the league doesn't end up caving to the ref's demands. The league wants more accountability and more competition for referees. The obvious outcome of more accountability and more competition is better quality.

The reason they didn't get experienced D-1 refs is not because they didn't want to spend the money, it's because the NCAA (or whoever) told the D-1 refs if they took the replacement jobs, they wouldn't have jobs waiting for them when the lockout ended.

[thatlookseasy]

You can say the same thing about players, coaches, anything. Put some random high school/small college players in there with only a few months to prepare and see how it goes. The ref lockout was never about improving the quality of officiating in the short term, obviously. I believe it will in the long term, though. That is, if the league doesn't end up caving to the ref's demands. The league wants more accountability and more competition for referees. The obvious outcome of more accountability and more competition is better quality.

The reason they didn't get experienced D-1 refs is not because they didn't want to spend the money, it's because the NCAA (or whoever) told the D-1 refs if they took the replacement jobs, they wouldn't have jobs waiting for them when the lockout ended.

May have been the intent, but they failed. If this was about accountability, then why are you lowballing the refs on money? Why not give them an offer that exceeds their demands AND requires more accountability? Make that public, put pressure on the union.

Because right now I cant tell the difference between an NFL that is trying to make refs more accountable and an NFL that is trying to save a few bucks by low-balling their refs and destroying the quality of their product

[Falcons1stPanthers2nd]

May have been the intent, but they failed. If this was about accountability, then why are you lowballing the refs on money? Why not give them an offer that exceeds their demands AND requires more accountability? Make that public, put pressure on the union.

Because right now I cant tell the difference between an NFL that is trying to make refs more accountable and an NFL that is trying to save a few bucks by low-balling their refs and destroying the quality of their product

Because the refs want NO accountability and won't budge.

[MadHatter]

Just cost the Packers the game. Soooo many bogus calls. Id be sick if that happened against us

People are forgetting that the Instant Replay Referee in the booth is NOT a replacement ref.

[usmcpanthers]

One more time. The call on the field was a touchdown. The review process cannot overturn the call on the field.

one ref was signaling touchdown, and the other one was signaling stop clock for safety

then all of a sudden touchdown wtf? No huddle with the refs, jsut cuz one out of what 6 said touchdown...its a touch down...they caved to the crowd. Just like how they have been bullied by coaches and players.

[MadHatter]

One more time. The call on the field was a touchdown. The review process cannot overturn the call on the field.

Are you high? Or, do you really not understand the review process.

The review referee in the booth CAN ABSOLUTEY overturn the call of the field. That is the whole reason for the "review process".

[thatlookseasy]

Because the refs want NO accountability and won't budge.

Based on what? Literally everything I have seen about it says both sides are still apart on money. If this isnt about money, then come out with a generous offer that clearly makes it not about money, you would get public support (clearly we all want to see good officiating).

But right now, I have no reason to think this isnt about the money. Which is frankly retarded for a league like this

[beastson]

Not to be an a-hole about it, but a lot of these refs threads needs to be moved to the general football section

[JawnyBlaze]

May have been the intent, but they failed. If this was about accountability, then why are you lowballing the refs on money? Why not give them an offer that exceeds their demands AND requires more accountability? Make that public, put pressure on the union.

Because right now I cant tell the difference between an NFL that is trying to make refs more accountable and an NFL that is trying to save a few bucks by low-balling their refs and destroying the quality of their product

They haven't failed anything yet, it's not over. They only fail if they cave in and give the refs what they want. And I'd be willing to bet that if the refs concede the accountability and competition points the league would concede at least more than half way on the money point. Just my opinion though, no "insider info" or anything like that. I'm pretty sure the league's main goal in all this isn't to save $4mil a year, it's the two points I already mentioned as well as not establishing a precedent of giving in when an employee makes demands, which would make them look weak and have much more damaging future ramifications.

On a related note, another bet I'd be willing to make is that given a full year to prepare, and access to those D-1 refs mentioned (by way of them not caring if they lose their NCAA jobs since they'd have full NFL jobs), the game would do fine if none of the currently locked out refs came back at all. Just wouldn't be fine this year. The league has to look at the long term, not the short term.

[thatlookseasy]

They haven't failed anything yet, it's not over. They only fail if they cave in and give the refs what they want. And I'd be willing to bet that if the refs concede the accountability and competition points the league would concede at least more than half way on the money point. Just my opinion though, no "insider info" or anything like that. I'm pretty sure the league's main goal in all this isn't to save $4mil a year, it's the two points I already mentioned as well as not establishing a precedent of giving in when an employee makes demands, which would make them look weak and have much more damaging future ramifications.

On a related note, another bet I'd be willing to make is that given a full year to prepare, and access to those D-1 refs mentioned (by way of them not caring if they lose their NCAA jobs since they'd have full NFL jobs), the game would do fine if none of the currently locked out refs came back at all. Just wouldn't be fine this year. The league has to look at the long term, not the short term.

Looking long term is one thing, throwing away an entire season with terrible refs is the definition of failing though. It very well could be about something other than the money, but you HAVE to put public pressure on the union if this entire thing is about accountability. Because this poo on the field right now is an embarrassment for the NFL, and is only strengthening the refs position.

[thatlookseasy]

Are you high? Or, do you really not understand the review process.

The review referee in the booth CAN ABSOLUTEY overturn the call of the field. That is the whole reason for the "review process".

Can they review penalties?

More importantly, can they review simultaneous possession calls? Others in the thread have said no, I dont actually know that answer