Panther Talk on Now (8.05pm)

[CatMan72]

This franchise doesn't have the luxury of time like the Steelers had in the 60's and 70's because of free agency and salary cap guidelines. fans are jumping off the ship in droves. They are fed up with mediocrity. For the last 3 years home field advantage has been nonexistent. All the sudden the locker room seems more fragile than expected. This team hasn't played with a fire and passion since 2009. Rivera needs to set that tone. The tone that Seattle's defense came out with last night. That's not too much to ask for now. That doesn't take time to build.

To your point... the problem is not talent, it's attitude. Rivera has said himself that this team still has a "here we go again" mentality when things go wrong so he's trying to change the culture which is why a guy like Shockey was so good for this team.

With that in mind I think we need to bring in more vets with that same kind of winning attitude and edge to help stabilize this young team.

[Snake]

To your point... the problem is not talent, it's attitude. Rivera has said himself that this team still has a "here we go again" mentality when things go wrong so he's trying to change the culture which is why a guy like Shockey was so good for this team.

With that in mind I think we need to bring in more vets with that same kind of winning attitude and edge to help stabilize this young team.

Except Hurney and JR wont allow that... When you bring in avg guys you bring a avg attitude.

[CatMan72]

The Packers are a fine example of building through the draft... but you have to consider the impact of key vet FA acquisitions like Woodson as well.

You don't build through FA but I think the Panthers have gone a little too far in the other direction.

[Snake]

IMO the biggest problem is our coordinators. More so McD then Chud but these guys need to fire up the troops. I hate to point this out but its true. NO had a horrible defense till Williams came along and fired those guy up, got them playing with sub par talent and made them winners. Fast forward to this year and look what Noland has done for ATL, Look at Tampa and how they are playing, Hell look at what john harbaugh did for Alex Smith... The fact our coaches have no fire leads to our teams having no fire. The coaches are the leaders not the players, and if they want things to turn out right they need to show some fire.

I was sad to say that Smith was the only one to show some fire in that last game and coaches didnt stop him nor do it themselves. It just goes to show that Rivea has about as much control over Smith as Fox did and thats a problem cause he was toted as a leader that demanded respect.

[CatMan72]

IMO the biggest problem is our coordinators. More so McD then Chud but these guys need to fire up the troops. I hate to point this out but its true. NO had a horrible defense till Williams came along and fired those guy up, got them playing with sub par talent and made them winners. Fast forward to this year and look what Noland has done for ATL, Look at Tampa and how they are playing, Hell look at what john harbaugh did for Alex Smith... The fact our coaches have no fire leads to our teams having no fire. The coaches are the leaders not the players, and if they want things to turn out right they need to show some fire.

I was sad to say that Smith was the only one to show some fire in that last game and coaches didnt stop him nor do it themselves. It just goes to show that Rivea has about as much control over Smith as Fox did and thats a problem cause he was toted as a leader that demanded respect.

I have no confidence in McDermott @ this point... all he's ever done as a D coordinator is fail. I think Rivera needs to take over the defensive playcalling duties. I suspect McDermott does a good job of gameplanning but a poor job of playcalling come gametime.

[Snake]

I have no confidence in McDermott @ this point... all he's ever done as a D coordinator is fail. I think Rivera needs to take over the defensive playcalling duties. I suspect McDermott does a good job of gameplanning but a poor job of playcalling come gametime.

Im not sure if he does either one right. I just dont think he is DC material and his idea are bad. This is two years we have came out of the gates and had a flat defense. No injurys to blame it on this year so something has to give. I also belive that Rivera would be better off taking more control and prob replacing McD if he could. What I see on the field is poorly planned games and a hot and cold team to show for it.

[rayzor]

I would still rather have Rivera stumble while trying to explain things then have Fox smile and suggest everything is fine, or give us the dreaded "It is what it is".

Lets not forget guys that Rivera is only a 2nd year HC. Cam needs to be given some room to grow as a QB and Rivera needs to be given some room to grow as a HC. Nobody wants to hear that, but it's true.

100% true and agreed.

[rayzor]

To your point... the problem is not talent, it's attitude. Rivera has said himself that this team still has a "here we go again" mentality when things go wrong so he's trying to change the culture which is why a guy like Shockey was so good for this team.

With that in mind I think we need to bring in more vets with that same kind of winning attitude and edge to help stabilize this young team.

again...100% agreed.

i wouldn't have a bit of a problem with trading away all of our picks next year except for the first couple so that we could have some more experience brought in.

i thought the same this last year. sure, we wouldn't have ended up with 4 rookies starting...but then why should you be in a position where you have 4 rookies starting? we've been all about throwing rookies in the fire and letting them learn which i agree with...but there are limits. there needs to be balance.

the good thing is that next year the guys we started as rookies will have a year under their belts so there's that to be happy about but i still think the team needs some more experience by way of good proven (not necessarily star) players. i think guys like ron and dwan edwards are probably the standard. if we can bring in a solid safety or two from another team, another pass rusher, bring back shockey (dude's still got a couple years left in him and provides a solid option and great attitude), and find another RG, then i think we would be heading in the right direction.

i would like for needs to be met via free agency and/or trade and use the draft to just pick up BPAs.

[nobody]

rr could have his voice replaced by the teacher in charlie brown and still do the same thing. My unsung hero in this is the poor call screener. Think about how much crap he had 2 sit through after the giants game.

[Gabeking]

This franchise doesn't have the luxury of time like the Steelers had in the 60's and 70's because of free agency and salary cap guidelines. fans are jumping off the ship in droves. They are fed up with mediocrity. For the last 3 years home field advantage has been nonexistent. All the sudden the locker room seems more fragile than expected. This team hasn't played with a fire and passion since 2009. Rivera needs to set that tone. The tone that Seattle's defense came out with last night. That's not too much to ask for now. That doesn't take time to build.

this is true, but i think we should wait at least a few more games before coming up with all these rash judgements against rivera and co., which i dont think is too much to ask for either. if we are still playing like we did against the giants, then of course it is time for concern, but i still think we should wait until at least after the second half of the season to make judgements.

[Rip Saw]

Who here wouldnt like to see Rivera ripping someones ass on the sideline for a missed tackle or dropped pass? sorry dudes but much as I like RR - his stoicism is getting old in light of what the team is doing.

[Ruff]

Kevin Greene for DC.

Wait, what?

[Marguide]

...i thought the same this last year. sure, we wouldn't have ended up with 4 rookies starting...but then why should you be in a position where you have 4 rookies starting? we've been all about throwing rookies in the fire and letting them learn which i agree with...but there are limits. there needs to be balance.

the good thing is that next year the guys we started as rookies will have a year under their belts so there's that to be happy about

I think you're right on getting some vets in that can play.

As to the point about rookies, yeah, it's great for them to gain the experience if you have good raw material to work with. Last year, apparently, at least in the case of the DT's, we didn't. McClain was cut, and when he's active, Fua is nothing more than a role player to give Dwan a breather. So we sat through 12 or 13 games of sub-standard DT play to reap the benefits this year, but those benefits never arrived. This year feels different to me, in that I think all of our draft picks, with the possible exception of Adams and Campbell, are going to be good players down the road. I never had any confidence in McClain or Fua.

As to the posts from others about Rivera's fire or lack thereof, it seems to me that a younger team needs emotion to play well. Vets, not so much. Ironically, the guy that seems most engaged to me on game day is Brian Murphy, and his guys are on the field the least. I don't know...it just seems like something is missing in the emotion department.

[raleigh-panther]

He tries to explain problems. Most coaches just deny they exist.

It's good that he tries to 'explain' them.

He needs to fix them.

While the Panthers don't have the best talent in the world, the schemes his coordinators use, and I assume he reviews and approves as head coach are not working to what little talent they do have.

I would like to think that there is going to be some great epiphany and the Panthers may beat the Falcons as a 'trap' game.

...but, those types of things happen to other teams, you know rising up and beating a better team, surprising them by effort, scheme or luck, it doesn't happen to the Panthers.

Example 1, the Vikings beating the 49ers.