Coaches vs. Players

[thefuzz]

Many of you are bashing the coaches (not saying you are wrong) while saying that we have plenty of talent on the roster. I'm not sure which way I lean yet, but I am thinking it's more of a talent issue than a coaching issue.

We are starting 10 players out of 22 from O and D that are either rookies, late round picks that have not shown up yet, or players that other teams were not really interested in.

Maybe the issue is not that the coaches can't draw up good game plans, maybe it's the talent level of the players at certain positions that are not able to execute complicated game plans yet.

A couple of the areas that stand out for me:

QB: Cam, while I love him, maybe he has not gotten comfortable with everything that he has to do on every snap, so Chud makes it a bit easier every couple of snaps, by reverting back to his comfort zone. We have no way to know for sure, but seems possible.

LG: Rookie from a division 2 school. Lights must be awfully bright for him right now, and probably has a hard time with the playbook at this point.

RG: Not sure that Hangman is starting calibre G in this league, but great depth.

RT: Bell, UFA pickup. Second year in the league, should be depth, not a starter.

LDE: Hardy, May be playing out of position, or may just not be good. 7 career sacks.

DT's: Edwards brothers. How many other teams would they be starting for?

WLB: Keek, like the player, but a rook who is going to struggle with the game plan, playbook, and speed.

RCB: Norman, Rook. Looking good but we are also giving everybody 15 yards.

FS: But honestly both safeties. Are they starters in this league?

Again, not bashing these players, I just have to wonder if we just don't have enough talent/experience to implement a game plan against a team like the Giants.

Also can look at our coaches and their relative inexperience and factor that in as well.

[Keith Moons Liver]

You don't get as bad as we are if you have either good players or good coaching. Top to bottom we have one of the least talented rosters in the league, and coupled with the comedy show on the sidelines things are going to get ugly.

[csx]

There doesn't have to be a single cause. It's a combination of players getting out played and coaches not putting together adequate plans or making the needed adjustments.

It is both.

[Swaggasaurus]

I think that you are writing off Byron Bell seriously here because of his age and draft status. Pretty much spot on with everyone else.

[Matthias]

QB: Cam, while I love him, maybe he has not gotten comfortable with everything that he has to do on every snap so Chud makes it a bit easier every couple of snaps by reverting back to his comfort zone. We have no way to know for sure, but seems possible.

This is starting to trouble me. Last year, he pretty much ran a pro offense from the beginning. This was with a shortened off season. So with a full off season of work, and a year under his belt, he should have a pretty good grasp of running a pro offense. Why in the world do we have these college plays as a means to make him comfortable?

Now I've seen Cam make all the throws, so I know he can handle running a pro offense. (Coming out of college this was the knock on him, whether or not he could adjust to the pros) What's the meaning of these 50+ option plays a game? Because I know we won't make the playoffs like this, I'm almost at the point now where I hope every defense we play, completely blows these options out of the water. Just beat it out of our systems. I cannot stand this play right now!

[thefuzz]

This is starting to trouble me. Last year, he pretty much ran a pro offense from the beginning. This was with a shortened off season. So with a full off season of work, and a year under his belt, he should have a pretty good grasp of running a pro offense. Why in the world do we have these college plays as a means to make him comfortable?

Now I've seen Cam make all the throws, so I know he can handle running a pro offense. (Coming out of college this was the knock on him, whether or not he could adjust to the pros) What's the meaning of these 50+ option plays a game? Because I know we won't make the playoffs like this, I'm almost at the point now where I hope every defense we play, completely blows these options out of the water. Just beat it out of our systems. I cannot stand this play right now!

If I had to guess there are a few things going on here, and it happens to a lot of young QB's.

Having a hard time losing and keeping his head up.

Having a hard time breaking down complex D's.

Now facing D coordinators that have game tape on him.

Limited talent on the outside. (outside Smitty)

Does not trust his O Line.

Has not developed pocket awareness yet.

Footwork.

[panther4life]

Many of you are bashing the coaches (not saying you are wrong) while saying that we have plenty of talent on the roster. I'm not sure which way I lean yet, but I am thinking it's more of a talent issue than a coaching issue.

We are starting 10 players out of 22 from O and D that are either rookies, late round picks that have not shown up yet, or players that other teams were not really interested in.

Maybe the issue is not that the coaches can't draw up good game plans, maybe it's the talent level of the players at certain positions that are not able to execute complicated game plans yet.

A couple of the areas that stand out for me:

QB: Cam, while I love him, maybe he has not gotten comfortable with everything that he has to do on every snap so Chud makes it a bit easier every couple of snaps by reverting back to his comfort zone. We have no way to know for sure, but seems possible.

Cam was the # 1 overall pick in the draft 2 years ago. Is the most talented and physically gifted QB to come out in a long time. He also has remarkable work ethic.

LG: Rookie from a division 2 school. Lights must be awfully bright for him right now, and probably has a hard time with the playbook at this point.

We had a full offseason to get him ready and he was drafted to start when we picked him. Dude also has all the physical skills you could ask for. We have other options with more experience but yet those chose him.

RG: Not sure that Hangman is starting calibre G in this league, but great depth.

Hangman is not a probowler but is a capable starter at RG and did better than most think last year and really only had 1 bad game this year vs a lesser experienced but more talented DT in Mccoy. -3 for the coaches

RT: Bell, UFA pickup. Second year in the league, should be depth, not a starter.

-Bell has acutally done quite well. He's no pro bowler but just because he was undrafted is no excuse. You have Gary Williams sitting there if you want experience. -4 for the coaches

LDE: Hardy, May be playing out of position, or may just not be good. 7 career sacks.

or maybe not getting properly coached. They have Alexander,Keiser and Applewhite available if they feel a change is needed. One of those guys should be sufficient.

DT's: Edwards brothers. How many other teams would they be starting for?

Ron started for several years for the chiefs and Dwan is getting more push up the middle that we have had in years. Even Ron himself said the D-line is the easiest position to plug in play on the whole field.

WLB: Keek, like the player, but a rook who is going to struggle with the game plan, playbook, and speed.

He has immense talent and seems to be pretty intelligent. Not seeing many snaps though and thats a coaches decision.

RCB: Norman, Rook. Looking good but we are also giving everybody 15 yards.

Norman is playing well and has yet to give up a score. Yes he is playing way back and giving plenty cushion but not on his own accord

FS: But honestly both safeties. Are they starters in this league?

Depends on what team they are on. Only 6 safeties make the probowl each year. Are these guys in that class, nope. But they are not the 2 worst starters either from a talent standpoint.

Again, not bashing these players, I just have to wonder if we just don't have enough talent/experience to implement a game plan against a team like the Giants.

Also can look at our coaches and their relative inexperience and factor that in as well.

I bolded all of my responses. Coaching matters, look at the saints. This is an any given sunday leauge and at the end of the day the blame should fall on the coaches if they can't get their guys prepared. Can you argue that we employed a good gameplan from start to finish in our 2 losses this year? Many on here would be far less upset if we at least made it a competetive game against the Giants. Their offense without Bradshaw and Nicks is far inferior to ours even with Stewart and Bell out. The Giants defense has also got torched by the likes of Dallas who could not do poo against Seattle and Tampa who's strength is not to run up points on you.

A good coach has to coach around the teams weaknesses. We have overhauled our roster a ton since Rivera got here and I'd argue that he had a strong say in every move made. Hurney's not the kind of guy who is going to go against the will of his head coach.

The Giants defensive talent should not have been enough to limit our offensive talent to 1 touchdown. Nor should their offensive talent without their first string running back and best W.R. been enough to drum up 36 points on our defense from a talent standpoint. I mean hell the one area we should be strongest at from a talent standpoint is linebacker and that is probably the biggest area where we have been outschemed at thus far this year

And this big bad scary Giants Defense gave up 400 points last year. Thats 25 a game. Good for 8th worst in the league. And until they saw us they were on the same exact pace this year.

Our offense scored the 7th most points last year of any team. We upgraded every offensive position over last year or at the very least gained experience. How do we go this backwards? Did we get lucky last year?

[Matthias]

I say, let Cam struggle while learning to run a full pro offense. Don't make him comfortable, that is the problem. When your in a comfort zone, you tend to stay there. Let Cam run a full pro offense, who cares if he struggles. I rather him struggle now and learn, than to be in a comfort zone his whole career, not getting better.

[panther4life]

Also we have 6 new starters on defense from last years debacle. Everyone of those new starters are more talented than the guys we replaced them with, yet are defense looks no better than it did last year.

From a fan standpoint theres nothing we can do to change the results. The crowd was amped up and ready to go Thursday...until the team's performance deflated them.

That being said we can only hope things can get better moving foward but no need to give the coaches a pardon for a piss poor effort thus far. I will congratulate them as soon as they do a good job. If they can be consistent with good coaching the amount of praise they will receive will far out weigh the amount of criticism they have gotten at this point. I am pulling for them as should every panther fan but I am not going to blindly give them pardons.

We were favored by most analyst and vegas in our 2 losses. I doubt anyone favored us because they said yea Rivera and crew are going to out coach the other other coaches. Well maybe in the Tampa game but yet the proved to be a false sentiment.

[thefuzz]

P4L.

I understand your sentiments, and I think that coaching has not been a bright spot for us this season, but IMO it cannot all be thrown on them.

Our roster is not all that good, and IMO having youth and inexperience at some pretty important areas is what is causing us many headaches.