Playcalling on the final drive...

[panthers55]

As someone else explained earlier, running around the end is a little riskier than up the middle. Going up the middle, a back normally has two hands on the ball, where as around the end, they are carrying one handed. Also, Cam fumbles a little bit more than Williams does. Not significantly more, but I think there is a slightly greater chance of Cam being stripped than Deangelo. Rivera did what most successful NFL coaches would do in that situation.

There are times to play conservative, and times that you shouldn't. When you have the ball and an 8 point lead with under two minutes left and the oppent only has two timeouts, thats the time to play conservative.

Again I disagree with your analysis and I think Belicheck is more successful than Rivera and I promise you he wouldn't have done that. So honestly your post fails on all levels.

[Davidson Deac II]

Again I disagree with your analysis and I think Belicheck is more successful than Rivera and I promise you he wouldn't have done that. So honestly your post fails on all levels.

And Tom Coughlin would have done it, and he beat Belicheck twice in the Superbowl, so your post fails on all levels and in multiple dimensions, and into infinity.

Seriously, you don't really know what Belicheck would do, and are only guessing. But of all the top coaches in NFL history (some of who are better than Belicheck), most did exactly the same as Rivera did when they were faced with a similar situation.

[panthers55]

And Tom Coughlin would have done it, and he beat Belicheck twice in the Superbowl, so your post fails on all levels and in multiple dimensions, and into infinity.

Seriously, you don't really know what Belicheck would do, and are only guessing. But of all the top coaches in NFL history (some of who are better than Belicheck), most did exactly the same as Rivera did when they were faced with a similar situation.

Actually I do know what he has done multiple times in the past. Get real here, I saw him go for it on 4 and 2 on his own 30 yard line. And when they asked him about it, he said that the best way to stop the other team from scoring is to keep the ball and get first downs. They didn't make it but he said he would do it again. And you think he would play conservative and run it up the middle and not ggo for the first down?? Seriously???

And I don't know where you got most coaches. I watch as much football as most people and I have seen as many go for it and throw screens or pitch it out to ice it as they do run it up the middle knowing they are giving it back to a prolific offense that scored a TD 1 minute earlier.

[SOJA]

No, just trying to put forth facts and reasoned analysis in a place where some responders to a question either think they, "simple and plain," know better than the team/coaches/FO, or worse IMHO, are accepting of mediocrity, and worse still, embrace a loser's mentality (e.g., It's just one game/play). I was there. It was a lot closer than it looked on TV. We easily could have faced a tie, and subsequent win by the Saints***. If that had been due to poor play calls or execution, these discussions would be much different.

The fact that we won makes ZERO difference in terms of improving play/coaching. Ask Cam. If giving the ball back was, in any way, intentional (which it wasn't), then it was stupid. If it was due to mistake(s), then it needs attention. While you can't dwell on the past, a wise man once said, "Those who do not remember their mistakes are doomed to repeat them."

PS - Speaking of how it looked on TV, Breezus did NOT score on that TD. He was stopped two feet short. Too bad the replacement refs didn't see what everyone in the stands in that corner saw. The final score should have been 35-20.

A) We won

B.) That doesn't make sense.

C) Our d possibly would have had to play anyway if we had gone for it on third by throwing (which would have given them more time- you can't act like passing or doing something different would have 100% guaranteed a first)

D) Of course Cam is going to say he wanted the ball

E) If anything it was a close call, the initial effort was not "2 feet short", however since you were AT the game, that immediately makes you a more reliable resource than multiple video replays.

[SOJA]

I'm not going to read this thread but there's a good argument to be made for what they did. They knew they could kill their timeouts and leave them with 80 yards in 49 seconds. The odds on that aren't very good, and they played them. You know that big sheet Rivera holds over his mouth when he talks on the headset? It's just a big list of situational football, game theory'd out.

Fans don't like it because they want to see the Panthers go deep on every play or whatever, but they played the percentages. Yes, Sherrod Martin could have been distracted by the color of the grass and given up a game tying touchdown, but Cam could also have lost the ball on an off tackle run like he did in the first quarter.

Basically don't get hung up on it.

thank buddha there is a least one other person who doesn't base their fandom off what they would do in madden

[xav8tor]

A) We won

B.) That doesn't make sense.

C) Our d possibly would have had to play anyway if we had gone for it on third by throwing (which would have given them more time- you can't act like passing or doing something different would have 100% guaranteed a first)

D) Of course Cam is going to say he wanted the ball

E) If anything it was a close call, the initial effort was not "2 feet short", however since you were AT the game, that immediately makes you a more reliable resource than multiple video replays.

Whatever. I'll go back now to arguing for living with people who actually understand logic and reason. While I'm gone, show me a video clip from 22 that proves Brees scored. You won't because he didn't, but if you do by chance, I actually will admit that I was wrong.

[SOJA]

Whatever. I'll go back now to arguing for living with people who actually understand logic and reason. While I'm gone, show me a video clip from 22 that proves Brees scored. You won't because he didn't, but if you do by chance, I actually will admit that I was wrong.

The classic: I'm going to insult your intelligence over the internet because I have nothing else to say.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/carolina-panthers/0ap1000000063198/QB-Brees-1-yd-run-TD

It was close, best angle is the initial one, ball most likely broke the plane of the endzone. He was not however, 2 feet short. Thanks for playing.

[xav8tor]

Thanks, and on this you are correct. I have nothing else to say. Buh Bye.

Update. One more thing. As I said, if I am wrong I will admit it. Aside from being distracted by two of my favorite TopCats between me and the goal line in that corner of the field during the 4th, I recall I focused on Breezus' body. I didn't even remember him doing the hand stretch. I checked relevant parts of the vids, slomo'ed them, and zoomed on screenshots, then did some rudimentary image analysis.

If this is representative of all the "film" they had, then there was no "indisputable" evidence to overturn the ruling. However, there isn't enough to "confirm" it either, so the call "stands" as a TD. Someone else here educated me on that concept and I went to the rulebook on it to learn more. I get it now. Fine. That PI call against whoever was defending Smith down in that corner earlier in the game looked a bit "iffy" too, so I guess it evened out, all things considered.

However, I steadfastly maintain that you, and anyone else who thinks intentionally giving the ball back to the Saints*** was a "smart decision," are dead wrong. As someone else described it, that idea is ludicrous. I'm not even remotely close to knowing all there is about coordinating an offense, so I can't fault specific play calls technique as being good or bad, unless the PRIMARY goal was not to get a first down, but simply run down the clock and protect the ball. Newton was patently clear that is not what they wanted to do. They wanted a first, and failed. That is the only real point I was trying to get across. If it giving the ball back was intentional, as some say was smart, well, that mentality does not win championships in football, or anything else.