Don Gregory and the Scouting Department

[thefuzz]

Welcome to the dark side, hahahaha.

I have been banging my head against the wall about Hurney for so long these threads just make me laugh.

When a GM values LB's and RB's more than CB's and DT's you know you have an issue.

He is a bum, and needs to be covering the Panthers, not making the decisions for the entire franchise.

[KillerKat]

Agreed for the most part, BUT, it seems like we throw darts from in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, possibly the 4th. But, we've hit on a lot of late picks too. It just seems like we "stop caring" in the middle rounds, or at least take more risks.

Also, a testament to Gregory's ability is the amount of UDFAs we have brought in that contribute. So again, I put the onus on Hurney.

That's Mark Koncz. Director of Pro Scouting. Gregory is the college scout.

[Proudiddy]

The brightside is, if we get together and become sports writers and cover the Panthers, we may become Hurney's pets and then become his successor, lol.

Or Joe Person already has the inside track.

[Proudiddy]

That's Mark Koncz. Director of Pro Scouting. Gregory is the college scout.

UDFA's fall under Koncz' discretion?

[KillerKat]

UDFA's fall under Koncz' discretion?

I read that as UFAs. My bad.

[carolina-chuck]

They are rookies.

The problem is much much deeper than the two of them not having great games.

The problem is that this team is in a position to where we have to rely on rookies to step in and be immediate stars. That is a huge problem. Rookies on most teams are role players thier first year or two (sans a couple of them). They come in, fill a need and perform adequately. Their rookie mistakes are covered by great plays from thier surrounding cast.

The problem with our team is that due to poor drafting and being non-existant in Free Agency, we have to rely on these rookies to step in immediately to be high end performers (our team's success depends on it)...... Silatolu, Josh Norman, and Luke Keuchly. Our teams success weighs heavily on the play of these three guys, which had we drafted better in years past, wouldn't be the case.

The good teams don't draft starters with late picks. They draft depth that eventually are role players or elevate thier play in those roles to become starters.

To make up for Hurney's mistakes, we have been forced to draft starters and rely on them quickly. This is a huge problem that will become more and more evident as we move forward.

I agreed. That's exactly what I told my bro n law yesterday when he asked me why we have so many rookies starting.

[Marguide]

I don't get what is driving this discussion.

What are the OP and others saying in this thread? That Amini is a bust? That Luke is a bust? This after one game?

Perhaps someone could clue me in as apparently I can't read between the lines. Personally, I think the talent on this team is good enough to win consistently. If we do not, then maybe looking at scouting or the front office is not the right place.

Now, if the point of this thread is to complain about our drafts for the last few years (excluding Cam and this year, as it's too early to tell), then I agree, they were horrible. But we knew that before this game.

So, help me out here...what is it we are specifically arguing about?

[bigdog10]

Out of the 32 picks in the first round, 11 of them are not starters on their teams. When you invest a first and second round pick, you expect them to be starting.

Of course you do. That's not my point. My point is that you don't expect them to be stars right away. You expect them to be rookies and you expect them to make mistakes.

We don't have that luxury. We need them to be stars, along with other late round draft picks. We can't afford for Luke Keuchly to have rookie moments in coverage, because our secondary is so bad. We can't afford for Amini to struggle in pass protection, because we have an undrafted rookie starting on the other side of the line as well as a bills cast off. Josh Norman needs to be

The problem is much, much deeper than Keuchly and Amini.

[scratchy1]

Hurney is a problem and college scouting is a problem. Hurney might make the call to go with a DT in round 3, but he doesn't analyze film on five candidates and pick one. He relies largely on scouting evaluation and reports. Gregory's group has been very inconsistent. Where Hurney has killed this franchise is overpaying to keep players and making draft-day trades that cost us both future picks and also present picks (when the drafted player turns out to be a bust). The money we have tied up in running backs is just unconscionable, particularly in this offense with Newton at QB. I can't even imagine how much improvement we could have made at other positions if we had let Williams go.

[Fox007]

Gregory isn't the problem. When we hit on picks, we usually hit big time... Our first rounders have always been big contributors aside from Otah. It's the gambling, high-risk, low-reward draft day trades and the numerous misses in the 2nd and 3rd rounds by Hurney that have hurt us.

Our 1st rounders are all RBs and LBs lol....that's not how you win football games.

And a bust RT.

4 of the last 8 1st rounders are RB/LB and he Traded away two first rounders for essentially nothing.

So out of 6 actual picks 4 are RB/LB...

We are in this mess because of Hurney, no if ands or buts about it.

[Panthro]

Hope you guys like Lattimore on the 2013 Panthers

[Fox007]

I don't but I'm sure Hurney does.

[Toolbox]

Hope you guys like Lattimore on the 2013 Panthers

If that happens I will break lots of things.

[Mr. Scot]

I don't get what is driving this discussion.

What are the OP and others saying in this thread? That Amini is a bust? That Luke is a bust? This after one game?

Perhaps someone could clue me in as apparently I can't read between the lines. Personally, I think the talent on this team is good enough to win consistently. If we do not, then maybe looking at scouting or the front office is not the right place.

Now, if the point of this thread is to complain about our drafts for the last few years (excluding Cam and this year, as it's too early to tell), then I agree, they were horrible. But we knew that before this game.

So, help me out here...what is it we are specifically arguing about?

Nothing to do with this year's rookies. They're all graded incomplete so far, though I like what I see of Kuechly so far and Silatolu has potential even if he's off to a rough start.

So nothing to do with them, but everything to do with the following:

2011

1st Round - Cam Newton (obvious hit)

2nd Round - Traded away to get Armanti Edwards

3rd Round - DT Terrell McClain (cut)

3rd Round - DT Sione Fua (inactive)

4th Round - CB Brandon Hogan (injured, and by some accounts lazy)

5th Round - WR Kealoha Pilares (decent)

6th Round - LB Lawrence Wilson (cut because he was a dimbulb)

6th Round - OL Zack Williams (practice squad)

7th Round - OL Lee Ziemba (injured reserve)

2010

2nd Round - QB Jimmy Clausen (nuff said)

3rd Round - WR Brandon LaFell (panning out so far)

3rd Round - WR Armanti Edwards (on year 3 of a "3 year plan")

4th Round - DE Eric Norwood (gone, if he was ever really even here)

6th Round - DE Greg Hardy (up in the air, ought to be better than he seems to be)

6th Round - WR David Gettis (injured, has looked good when healthy)

6th Round - Jordan Pugh (cut, picked up by Redskins)

6th Round - QB Tony Pike (does anyone even remember we drafted him?)

7th Round - CB R.J. Stanford (cut, picked up by Dolphins)

7th Round - CB Robert McClain (cut, currently a Falcon)

2009

2nd Round - DE Everette Brown (and we traded a future first rounder to get him)

2nd Round - CB Sherrod Martin (currently a backup / special teamer)

3rd Round - DT Corvey Irvin (gone, was active for the Bucs yesterday but I don't think he had any stats)

4th Round - RB Mike Goodson (traded to the Raiders)

4th Round - FB Tony Fiammetta (cut, currently in New England)

5th Round - G Duke Robinson (cut, currently somewhere having a double cheeseburger)

7th Round - CB Captain Munnerlyn (loads of heart, but just not good enough to be a starter)

2008

1st Round - RB Jonathan Stewart (phenomenal when healthy)

1st Round - T Jeff Otah (phenomenal when it's 2008, traded back up into the first to get him)

3rd Round - S Charles Godfrey (quality is a hot debate topic, I'm a detractor)

3rd Round) - LB Dan Connor (signed with Cowboys, no longer has to tell people his last name isn't "Morgan")

5th Round - TE Gary Barnidge (another debatable one, has shown flashes but not yet a consistent contributor)

6th Round - DT Nick Hayden (uuuummm...yeah)

7th Round - DE Hilee Taylor (this will be the year he breaks ou...oh, wait he's gone)

7th Round - T Geoff Schwartz (wasn't re-signed, backup for the Vikes at the moment, teammates with Kalil's brother)

7th Round - G Mackenzy Bernadeau (with Connor in Dallas, gave up the first official sack of the 2012 season)

2007

1st Round - LB Jon Beason (missed him big-time last year)

2nd Round - WR Dwayne Jarrett (somewhere trying to pass a breathalyzer)

2nd Round - C Ryan Kalil (fantastic player, not so great as a psychic)

3rd Round - DE Charles Johnson (getting paid a lot of money)

4th Round - WR Ryne Robinson (looked good before injury)

5th Round - TE Dante Rosario (was never as good as people thought, currently a Charger, ironically enough)

5th Round - LB Tim Shaw (decent special teamer who's bounced around, currently in Tennessee)

7th Round - DB C.J. Wilson (gone, looked like he had potential but didn't pan out)

These are all the drafts conducted under Don Gregory's watch (except the latest one, of course). All tolled, forty-two picks. Out of those, eight are still here and starting, four are contributing, four more are here but not really doing much, one is a practice squadder and two are on IR. The rest are gone in some form, with several out of football.

Now, does Hurney get the blame for a lot of that? Yeah. For all of it? No.

As mentioned previously, these decisions - especially the later round ones - are made based on information that the scouting department supplies. So when you play the blame game for these crappy drafts, you simply cannot leave them out of the equation.

I was a big fan of Don Gregory when he first got here (an improvement over Tony Softli) but these bad drafts are piling up. Teams that stay in contention tend to hit on about half their draft picks or better and get more "home runs" than other teams out of their higher picks than we have.

Bottom Line: Yes, Hurney is the guy primarily responsible, and I've become increasingly of the opinion that as long as he's in charge we'll continue to be an average team that "surprises" once in a while, but not the perennial contender we want to be.

But he's not making these mistakes all on his own. He's getting plenty of help.