Kuechly

[Snake]

Once he learn how to get off blocks, he'll be a beast on the field. Thats the biggest problem for him now. Had a better game yesterday than the Bucs' game. Seemed like the game slowed down a bit for him.

Well that and learning to read the QB. The Buc's really picked on him to the point we had to replace him in the first game. The kid has some really solid skills but just does not have the mental at this point. I just find its funny how the people that said he was going to be Cam Newton of the defense are now backtracking.

[CPF4LIFE]

Well that and learning to read the QB. The Buc's really picked on him to the point we had to replace him in the first game. The kid has some really solid skills but just does not have the mental at this point. I just find its funny how the people that said he was going to be Cam Newton of the defense are now backtracking.

Who is back tracking?? And why would they care if were winning and a improved team??

[Marguide]

Im just going in with facts and nothing else. If we went out every draft and tried to replace everyone that was injured the year before we would be a terrible team. The fact is we would have been alright with knowing Beason and Anderson were going to be starting. We were not alright with the fact that McClain was our only UT. Cox could have solved that for years. We are luckly we got Edwards but it could have turned out worse.

Also if your saying Kuechly was not being picked on in Tampa your the causal fan. Ive rewached that game many times and he was exposed greatly. I have yet to see the Film for the Saints game to say if Kuechly did better than Beason but Im going to say I doubt it.

Why don't you point out some specific plays when he got abused so we can review them?

[NavyPF4L]

Yeah. I've got rewind as well and I'm starting to wonder if you actually know what you're looking at. He's doing just fine. If anything he's doing the small things that go unnoticed to free up the others. What's cox doing again?

[FirstRoundPick]

Prediction: Rookie LB will get beat on a regular basis by a 6-6 TE that had 99 catches last year from perhaps the most accurate throwing QB in the NFL.

Result: That happens.

BOW TO MY WISDOM!!!

I realize that I did not out on a limb on this, and in fact as I stated before I believed I had over a 95% chance of being right, but I would like to give a more accurate telling of the event dating back to the draft.

Hours after the draft:

Dude 1: fug yeah dudes we got a beast.

Dude 2: DROY yeah!

Dude 3.: Mayock said he can cover, he is going to shutdown Graham

Me: Luke has talent; however, getting a LBer is redundant with our personal, one of the lowest ranked positions in terms of importance, ignores quite a few bigger holes, and personally I'm tired of seeing this level of investment in that level of the defense when there is only so much money to go around. And no, there isn't a LBer who can cover Graham.

Dude 1-3: Dude, you don't know more than Mayock, and Hurney.

Me: Uh...ok, I guess Mayock said he would shut down Graham, see you in September.

I realize I'm not a genius. I realize that it is pretty much football common sense that Graham was going to get his. What you need to realize that there were people who did not think this. They really thought Graham being 6' 6'' didn't mean anything. Only one put his neck out when reality was only a few days away, so I give credit to him for doing so. There was another one I was hoping would speak up, but he decided to hide from this thread. He likes to make up Panther facts when he thinks he doesn't have to be accountable for them.

Now that the history of this thread has been summed up, I feel I must make a few more points from things I have heard in this thread.

1. Noone has said Kueckly is a bust in this thread at this. Someone do a quote and prove me wrong because it is possible I may have missed it.

2. To those you say two games is too early to talk, it ignores the arguments that Snake, and thefuzz, and others have said, and it really ignores the overly unrealistic yet optimistic arugments such as Kuechly as DROY, and Kuechly will shut down Graham, and Luke = Cam on defense before he even played a snap. It is unrealistic to say Keuchly is a bust this point, and really not true, but no one has said that; see point 1, but if others can say what they said before he played a snap, I can say based on two games he has been unimpressive.

3.. To those who use the Oh Hurney doesn't have All Pros at all positions so he must suck opinion to discourage any criticism against him. This misses the point. One of the most valid criticism against him is that there is only so much talent to go around and he decides to absolutely loaded up on non-essential personal. He has used a lot of money and draft picks on two positions. Five out of the last seven first round draft picks to to exact. A team is going to run the ball around 45% of the time, and realistically only one of our backs is going to be a threat on that play. For LBers, a team can go and will go regardless of our personal 3 and 4 wide putting one or two LBers to join the other LBer who sat out that play. This is in addition to the fact that we wouldn't be hurting for LBer play if Phillips and Senn saw some action. Noone is denying that he has put together a great group of LBers and RB's, we just question the wisdom in it because you are missing opportunity to improve essential positions.This is part of the reason Kuechly was hyped so much so they could say "we are stopping the pass just watch him shut down Graham".

4. The guy who said if we didn't draft Kuechkly that we would have picked up a FA LBer and everyone would have bitched in hindsight that we should of spent that money on CB instead of LBer. Well hindsight wouldn't have anything to do with that. CB > LB, so yeah I'll complain about spending that money on a good LBer if we could have got a good CB with it. You won't get any shame in that from me.

[DaCityKats]

the play were Thomas broke Naka tackle, Luke was fencing over and got blocked by the Guard. my beef with the pick was that the brass was stating he was bpa. i still disagree with that statement, but i wish him the best since he is a panther. i think he will become a decent player in the league, and did want to get a LB but not in the 1st. the LB i really wanted was Kendricks who was taken in the 2nd but thats water under the bridge.

[DaCityKats]

oh and if covering is his strong point why is he not on the field in passing situations?plus Martin made a helleva catch on him last week.im just meh on this selection, and have been. but it a long season he has time to improve.

[Snake]

Why don't you point out some specific plays when he got abused so we can review them?

A good play to point out for the Buc's would be the play where he got faked out by the FB and Freeman hit him in the flat for a big gain. The line and RB went one way and so did Kuechly even though his man was the FB.

I will see if I cant get the film so I can show you from the sky view. Its quite obvious from that angle.

[Snake]

Yeah. I've got rewind as well and I'm starting to wonder if you actually know what you're looking at. He's doing just fine. If anything he's doing the small things that go unnoticed to free up the others. What's cox doing again?

If your talking about taking on the FB then thats just laughable. Our ST LBs could do that all day long and not skip a beat. Im just tired of people pretending he is not struggling at this point. Its like saying well AE is doing all the little things but he's just not getting the ball. Well theres a reason for that.

[Snake]

I realize that I did not out on a limb on this, and in fact as I stated before I believed I had over a 95% chance of being right, but I would like to give a more accurate telling of the event dating back to the draft.

Hours after the draft:

Dude 1: fug yeah dudes we got a beast.

Dude 2: DROY yeah!

Dude 3.: Mayock said he can cover, he is going to shutdown Graham

Me: Luke has talent; however, getting a LBer is redundant with our personal, one of the lowest ranked positions in terms of importance, ignores quite a few bigger holes, and personally I'm tired of seeing this level of investment in that level of the defense when there is only so much money to go around. And no, there isn't a LBer who can cover Graham.

Dude 1-3: Dude, you don't know more than Mayock, and Hurney.

Me: Uh...ok, I guess Mayock said he would shut down Graham, see you in September.

I realize I'm not a genius. I realize that it is pretty much football common sense that Graham was going to get his. What you need to realize that there were people who did not think this. They really thought Graham being 6' 6'' didn't mean anything. Only one put his neck out when reality was only a few days away, so I give credit to him for doing so. There was another one I was hoping would speak up, but he decided to hide from this thread. He likes to make up Panther facts when he thinks he doesn't have to be accountable for them.

Now that the history of this thread has been summed up, I feel I must make a few more points from things I have heard in this thread.

1. Noone has said Kueckly is a bust in this thread at this. Someone do a quote and prove me wrong because it is possible I may have missed it.

2. To those you say two games is too early to talk, it ignores the arguments that Snake, and thefuzz, and others have said, and it really ignores the overly unrealistic yet optimistic arugments such as Kuechly as DROY, and Kuechly will shut down Graham, and Luke = Cam on defense before he even played a snap. It is unrealistic to say Keuchly is a bust this point, and really not true, but no one has said that; see point 1, but if others can say what they said before he played a snap, I can say based on two games he has been unimpressive.

3.. To those who use the Oh Hurney doesn't have All Pros at all positions so he must suck opinion to discourage any criticism against him. This misses the point. One of the most valid criticism against him is that there is only so much talent to go around and he decides to absolutely loaded up on non-essential personal. He has used a lot of money and draft picks on two positions. Five out of the last seven first round draft picks to to exact. A team is going to run the ball around 45% of the time, and realistically only one of our backs is going to be a threat on that play. For LBers, a team can go and will go regardless of our personal 3 and 4 wide putting one or two LBers to join the other LBer who sat out that play. This is in addition to the fact that we wouldn't be hurting for LBer play if Phillips and Senn saw some action. Noone is denying that he has put together a great group of LBers and RB's, we just question the wisdom in it because you are missing opportunity to improve essential positions.This is part of the reason Kuechly was hyped so much so they could say "we are stopping the pass just watch him shut down Graham".

4. The guy who said if we didn't draft Kuechkly that we would have picked up a FA LBer and everyone would have bitched in hindsight that we should of spent that money on CB instead of LBer. Well hindsight wouldn't have anything to do with that. CB > LB, so yeah I'll complain about spending that money on a good LBer if we could have got a good CB with it. You won't get any shame in that from me.

Cosign!

[Marguide]

A good play to point out for the Buc's would be the play where he got faked out by the FB and Freeman hit him in the flat for a big gain. The line and RB went one way and so did Kuechly even though his man was the FB.

I will see if I cant get the film so I can show you from the sky view. Its quite obvious from that angle.

Yeah, I remember that play. He missed his assignment, and then let the guy carry him a couple of yards down the field. Clearly a loss for Luke.

He is not the only LB that has had a whiff this year though. Every player gets beat from time to time. As an example, on one Tampa TD (don't remember the receiver), it appeared at first glance that Gamble got beat. But after review, it's pretty clear that Beason bit on the play action, and it was actually his man that caught the TD.

Kuechly has made some good plays and he's made some bad ones. So have Beason and Anderson. While I don't remember any from Davis yet, you can be sure he'll get burnt at some point. The difference is, Beason had a pick to end the Saints game, Davis has made some big plays, but really, neither Anderson or Kuechly have one of those signature plays yet. That doesn't mean much as we have a small sample size. If after 8 games, Luke still doesn't have any plays where he really stands out, then yeah, we can start talking about his limitations. But it's just too early.

And as far as the draft pick question as elaborated by First Round Pick, maybe go check out Fletcher Cox's stats in Philly and put them up against Dwan Edwards' stats with us. Sure looks to me like we got better value.

[FirstRoundPick]

Yeah, I remember that play. He missed his assignment, and then let the guy carry him a couple of yards down the field. Clearly a loss for Luke.

He is not the only LB that has had a whiff this year though. Every player gets beat from time to time. As an example, on one Tampa TD (don't remember the receiver), it appeared at first glance that Gamble got beat. But after review, it's pretty clear that Beason bit on the play action, and it was actually his man that caught the TD.

Kuechly has made some good plays and he's made some bad ones. So have Beason and Anderson. While I don't remember any from Davis yet, you can be sure he'll get burnt at some point. The difference is, Beason had a pick to end the Saints game, Davis has made some big plays, but really, neither Anderson or Kuechly have one of those signature plays yet. That doesn't mean much as we have a small sample size. If after 8 games, Luke still doesn't have any plays where he really stands out, then yeah, we can start talking about his limitations. But it's just too early.

And as far as the draft pick question as elaborated by First Round Pick, maybe go check out Fletcher Cox's stats in Philly and put them up against Dwan Edwards' stats with us. Sure looks to me like we got better value.

I asked a question?

[NavyPF4L]

Yeah, I remember that play. He missed his assignment, and then let the guy carry him a couple of yards down the field. Clearly a loss for Luke.

He is not the only LB that has had a whiff this year though. Every player gets beat from time to time. As an example, on one Tampa TD (don't remember the receiver), it appeared at first glance that Gamble got beat. But after review, it's pretty clear that Beason bit on the play action, and it was actually his man that caught the TD.

Kuechly has made some good plays and he's made some bad ones. So have Beason and Anderson. While I don't remember any from Davis yet, you can be sure he'll get burnt at some point. The difference is, Beason had a pick to end the Saints game, Davis has made some big plays, but really, neither Anderson or Kuechly have one of those signature plays yet. That doesn't mean much as we have a small sample size. If after 8 games, Luke still doesn't have any plays where he really stands out, then yeah, we can start talking about his limitations. But it's just too early.

And as far as the draft pick question as elaborated by First Round Pick, maybe go check out Fletcher Cox's stats in Philly and put them up against Dwan Edwards' stats with us. Sure looks to me like we got better value.

I agree here completely. Also I'm not real sure if you've noticed or not but I do notice that you guys are harping on the whole we should've picked up a big name CB. Turns out that's another guy I've been watching and as skeptical as I was this kid is bringing it. I'm not sure if you remember gambles first year or not but so far this guy is playing well above what he did. Not to mention he hits like a brick house for a guy his size. As of right now he may have been the steal of this draft. Only thing I've really seen so far that bugs me is he's a *** too aggressive at times.

Honestly though the one that worries me the most is silatolu. He looks quite a bit lost out there at times but it helps a lot that he has good veteran help on both sides. However when he does finally figure out his target he usually gets the best of the engagement. Just worries me a bit on pass protection and they overload that side of the line.

I'm not sure if this is just a few people trying to prove a point about draft time debates but yeah.. It's way too early for anything to be said about these guys especially when it's always taken our defense up until mid season to really start hitting on all cylinders. I'm just saying of all our draft picks keuchly is probably the least of my worries out there. The front seven look good and the dbs are looking pretty good as well. Nakumara is the weakest link out there right now.

[Marguide]

I asked a question?

Okay, call it an issue, not a question. You obviously were not supportive of the Kuechly pick and questioned Hurney's strategy. I used Fletcher Cox as an example of someone many wanted pre-draft, including me.

But yes, I do have a question. Who would you have picked, and how would you have addressed the weakside linebacker position?