stewart will miss opener...

[CRA]

He thinks that the read option is a particular play not a formation that you can do a number things from. Some people call the inside dive play off the read option a read option play and he doesn't realize it can be a number of plays which are distinguished by the QB reading the defensive end and then optioning off the ball to various runners or keeping it himself depending on what the end does.

No. I simply acknowledge the formation ALWAYS has Stewart as the potential inside handoff option. Cam and Stewart were the required bodies to open up all those other plays.

Spread option look requires that Stewart role. No one else did that role.

It isn't a difficult concept. Name a play out of the spread option where Stewart wasnt the first potential option?

[panthers55]

Yes, there are other option off a zone read....a pass to Olsen, a pitch to Williams, etc.

But Cam and Stewart were the only ones doing the actual zone read component of the play....which is the base component of the look

You are wrong again. Stewart and Newton aren't doing the zone read option, Newton is doing the zone read option. Stewart is going to do the same thing every play which is move forward up the field and either Newton is going to give him the ball or if he reads the end crashing down, he will keep it himself. Once Stewart gets the ball he will run to daylight. But Stewart is not reading anything. If he were, then if they didn't read the same thing there would be utter confusion. The same with a pitch to Williams. Williams does what is called for him to do, Newton decides who gets the ball. Newton can change the play from an inside run to a pitch by calling an audible but neither Williams or Stewart are changing things or reading anything. That is what the quarterback does.

We did rehash this before. Why are you still arguing when it is clear.

[TylerVagyler]

Didn't Williams take one to the house against the Saints* off an option play from Cam?

[panthers55]

No. I simply acknowledge the formation ALWAYS has Stewart as the potential inside handoff option. Cam and Stewart were the required bodies to open up all those other plays.

Spread option look requires that Stewart role. No one else did that role.

It isn't a difficult concept. Name a play out of the spread option where Stewart wasnt the first potential option?

No it doesn't always start with Stewart. It only starts with Stewart when he is lined up next to Newton and Williams is either not in or lined up outside. If Stewart isn't in the game and WIlliams lines up next to Newton for a pitch outside, it is still the read option and Stewart has nothing to do with it. Again you are confusing one potential set out of the play option playbook as the read option play. You are confusing a play with a scheme.

[CRA]

Let's say Carolina ran the read option 50 times last year....some resulted in Newton runs, Williams runs, Olsen catches, Smith catches, etc.

Last year, the very first read the opposing D had to make is....is Stewart getting the inside handoff. No one else played Stewarts role in those plays.

So yeah, 55 I am not confusing a formation with a play. You are over looking the first read a D made every time was if Stewart was getting the ball. Panthers used no other RB in THAT role.

You don't just insert Williams in that role. Chud never did.

[Rook35200]

I'd rather Williams beast on Tampa abusing them on the outside.

Why run him inbetween the tackles putting that quirky read handoff on him?

DWill can run between the tackles effectively, but I like his ability running outside also. I believed the coaching staff has prepared for the possibility of Stewart not playing today. I imagine that they will use tolbert in some ways that they usually use Stew.

[TheGreatestOfAllTimeCam]

I am okay with this. My fantasy team grimmaces but I'm okay with this.

He's going to be our #1 guy by the end of the year. Need him healthy down the stretch

[CRA]

No it doesn't always start with Stewart. It only starts with Stewart when he is lined up next to Newton and Williams is either not in or lined up outside. If Stewart isn't in the game and WIlliams lines up next to Newton for a pitch outside, it is still the read option and Stewart has nothing to do with it. Again you are confusing one potential set out of the play option playbook as the read option play. You are confusing a play with a scheme.

Point remains when they used the spread option...Stewart was the RB doing the inside run zone read.

When Stewart wasn't in....they weren't running a spread option play with the zone read.

[panthers55]

Let's say Carolina ran the read option 50 times last year....some resulted in Newton runs, Williams runs, Olsen catches, Smith catches, etc.

Last year, the very first read the opposing D had to make is....is Stewart getting the inside handoff. No one else played Stewarts role in those plays.

So yeah, 55 I am not confusing a formation with a play. You are over looking the first read a D made every time was if Stewart was getting the ball. Panthers used no other RB in THAT role.

You don't just insert Williams in that role. Chud never did.

I am not going to try and convince you I am right since I know I am. Apparently you didn't get this before after pages of debate so I doubt you will get it this time so I won't go back and forth.

But for the last time, Stewart wasn't on the field for every read option play so he can't be the first option on every play when he isn't even on the field. The read option doesn't require a runner to go up the middle to be a run option play so no Stewart is not always getting the inside handoff, and no, every run option doesn't start with a fake to the inside guy.

So yes you are assuming that every read option play has an inside fake and that isn't true. Did we do it quite a bit? Yes. But we didn't do it all the time.

For what is worth, Tolbert will serve that role while Stewart is out so no biggie either. And yes Tolbert can do it since it doesn't require the runner to do anything other than run forward and either get the ball or block for Newton who keeps it. They don't read anything.

[CRA]

DWill can run between the tackles effectively, but I like his ability running outside also. I believed the coaching staff has prepared for the possibility of Stewart not playing today. I imagine that they will use tolbert in some ways that they usually use Stew.

Tolbert is the wildcard.

We know what Williams does well.

[philw5289]

damnit i ordered his nike jersey right before he got hurt. Oh well i'm still rocking it today

[panthers55]

Point remains when they used the spread option...Stewart was the RB doing the inside run zone read.

When Stewart wasn't in....they weren't running a spread option play with the zone read.

Yes they were. That is where you are wrong. You think an option play requires an inside handoff and it doesn't. That is one option you can run not the only one. And Stewart wasn't reading anything. He was simply taking the handoff and running to daylight. Running behind zone blocking and picking an open hole is not what they are talking about when they are using the term an option read. They mean the quarterback reading the end, not the running back reading his blocking which is totally different.

[Mage]

Stewart was the one running the zone read option.

Williams was the one running the speed option.

Williams did not do what Stewart was doing (zone read). We only ran that with Stew. We only ran the speed with Williams.

That does not mean Williams can't run the zone read option. I think he will today - either him or Tolbert. But last year, CRA is right. Stew was the guy running the zone read option. Williams ran the speed option.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

Yes they were. That is where you are wrong. You think an option play requires an inside handoff and it doesn't. That is one option you can run not the only one. And Stewart wasn't reading anything. He was simply taking the handoff and running to daylight. Running behind zone blocking and picking an open hole is not what they are talking about when they are using the term an option read. They mean the quarterback reading the end, not the running back reading his blocking which is totally different.

spot on...but that would mean the pitches to williams are not read option plays since cam in fact draws the defense to him to get williams into open space.

there's nothing to read in that case.