Removing the franchise tag from Julius Peppers is the best option.

[carolinarolls]

We have a legit shot to repeat as the NFC South champs. I don't really care what the record is.

we are in the nfcs, we have a legit shot every year. Just like the other three teams.

and if you are not going to stand behind it don't be so quick to regurgitate last seasons record as a basis for painting everything in pastels this off season.

[carolinarolls]

Technically Trgovac wasn't a scapegoat.. since he.. well you know... left of his own volition. Same with much of the coaching staff from last season many of whom got better offers from other teams. Technically the Patriots seem to lose coaching staff year in and year out.. Personally, I believe that's one of their strengths.. No reccuring tendencies year in and year out continues the guessing games for teams and actually forces them to do their homework. "Surprise" Factor.

Maybe its a strength maybe its not. we are not talking about that. If you believe trgo left becasue he wanted to fine. I guess he wanted to because he got tired of taking the blame for poor defensive efforts.

that means he is a scape goat btw. don't be so naive..please.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

If the Bucs have a legit shot to win the NFC South then yeah, we definitely have a legit shot to go 12-4 again. I guess your definition of legit differs from mine.

[carolinarolls]

If the Bucs have a legit shot to win the NFC South then yeah, we definitely have a legit shot to go 12-4 again. I guess your definition of legit differs from mine.

so you dont think the bucs can win it i see.

i guess that shows how much faith you have in us going 12-4 then.

what it doesn't show is why the hell you made the original comment if you don't have that great a faith in it actually happening.

I wish some people on this board would think before they post sometimes, geezus

[R0CKnR0LLA]

My post was pointing out that you want to get rid of the HC/FO/QB after a 12-4 season. Had nothing to do with what record we will have next year. Like I said, if we win the NFC South, I won't care what the record is.

And you think the Bucs have a legit shot to win the NFC South, yes? How about a legit shot to win the SB?

[carolinarolls]

My post was pointing out that you want to get rid of the HC/FO/QB after a 12-4 season. Had nothing to do with what record we will have next year. Like I said, if we win the NFC South, I won't care what the record is.

And you think the Bucs have a legit shot to win the NFC South, yes? How about a legit shot to win the SB?

any of the four have a legit shot to win the nfcs. I do not want to fire a HC/FO/QB after a 12-4 season. I want to fire a QB three years ago when he proved he was not smart enough to find the open man/make the right decision in a run-first offense. I want to fire a GM after making what I consider tho be an abysmally ignoreant decision in tagging Peppers at the end of what I see as a string of bad moves with other players. I don't want to fire Fox anymore. He will fire himself on his next failure. He is OK for themost part.

[CRA]

I feel the general opinion amongst fans that the Panthers should hold on to Julius Peppers until receiving adequate compensation is unrealistic, short sighted, and detrimental to the health of the 2009 Carolina Panthers for a number of reasons. Julius Peppers is not worth what the Panthers are currently paying him, and in general is no longer an elite defensive end. The tag placed on him precludes the Panthers from addressing needs at other positions. If allowed to test the market more actively, me might realize he's not worth what he thinks and resign with the Panthers for less than what he initially demanded. The Panthers will likely receive very good compensation if he signs somewhere else. Finally, the Panthers can stand to lose him.

.

so you are implying he WAS one.....but coming off a career high (for a former elite DE) in sacks (w/ questionable effort) somehow knocks him out the elite DE status? If I was a betting man, I bet you could watch every snap of any top DE played....you could find plenty to bitch about.......

I think the odds heavily favor Pep being the best DE ever in a Carolina uni. Also, the thought we have the DE talent now where losing him isn't a big deal is whack. We have Brayton, Charles Johnson, an unproven rookie and 2nd year player who is all pass rushing potential only..........that isn't what I would call having the talent to not see a signficant impact if Pep where to leave.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

OK, gotcha. You didn't answer about the Bucs though. You think they have a legit shot to win the SB?

[Seamonk]

we have been through this. you have no idea what trade could have been worked out with cap space. You don't know what player who may want to come here pipes up because he sees we have cap space.

I wanted Cutler, Haynesworth, and Holt or any of the three. I also wanted to be considered a s a player for everyone else in the way that maybe I raise the price for my in-conference suitors. Basically I don't want to be dead in the water due to a player who admittedly wants out to begin with and keep me from being a player in the case that something comes up.

The fact that nobody really looked like they would fall in our lap from a fans understanding of things does not give a GM any right to take the franchise out of the running.

I did not think you were this naive. I also did not think you were this small-minded. There is a bigger picture of the possibilities than what NFL.com posts on their "notable free agents" list.

please don't respond with anything else as adolescent as your last post

So. With cap space and Julius unfranchised. How do we trade for cutler? Because I'm pretty sure the bears would have beaten our offer.

Really, with your sense of "Trade" talk, it really comes down to "how do I want to deal with this?"

You could make a trade, and/or build through free agency, Valid Strategy

Or You could make a trade, and/or build through the draft. Also a Valid Strategy.

Traditionally we've built through the draft.. Our Free Agent scouting isn't exactly up to par as our draft scouting (See Panthers Free Agent Busts)

So would you want to trade FOR a player, or trade a player FOR picks? As we saw in last month's draft, we did neither. We traded picks for more picks.

Draft picks are cheaper than most Free Agents. So in terms of bust potential, a Draft Pick is safer. Especially without a first rounder.

Now, if we didn't have Peppers franchised. Would we have traded away a future first? If we had that all important cap space. It really comes down to Is Everette Brown better than any other free agent DE? At the same time, we risk losing any available top picks because we're at the bottom of the second round.

If we let Peppers walk.. we would have had an obvious need at DE. and WITH peppers franchised we gave up a first, who knows how much we would have had to give up in order to move up without him. Because teams know we have a definite need. This would result in either a failed trade or a one sided trade.

Sure, we hurt ourselves in free agency, but it might have saved our draft.

[Seamonk]

Maybe its a strength maybe its not. we are not talking about that. If you believe trgo left becasue he wanted to fine. I guess he wanted to because he got tired of taking the blame for poor defensive efforts.

that means he is a scape goat btw. don't be so naive..please.

Earlier, you mentioned it from the perspective of the FO. "Firing" is definitely a FO perspective. "Blame" is most directly from the fans. You do not "blame" your coaches for doing something stupid. You changed the perspective. Be more consistent, Please.

[carolinarolls]

be more consistent. Hilarious. I am plenty consistent. Stop splitting hairs just because your argument is dumb. You have no way of knowing what could have taken place with some money in our pockets. Neither do I. My point was that we risked that unknown for someone who did not want to play here and we did it under the premise of us wanting him to stay. That is just dumb, sorry if you don't get it. And you being "pretty sure" does not comfort me in any way about anything.

I have already told you to not respond with childish bullshit. Pay attention and think your next post through clearly because right now you are not making any sense.

rocknrolla,

I do not think the Bucs have a very good shot at wining the superbowl in 09-10

[Fiz]

so you are implying he WAS one.....but coming off a career high (for a former elite DE) in sacks (w/ questionable effort) somehow knocks him out the elite DE status? If I was a betting man, I bet you could watch every snap of any top DE played....you could find plenty to bitch about.......

i'd say from about halfway though 2003 until the first quarter of 2006 Peppers was probably a top three defensive end. However, for what are likely a plethora of reasons (i wouldn't count out the decline of Rucker, absence of Buckner) Peppers began falling off in 2006, and he really hasn't recovered.

i really don't like sacks as a good metric for evaluating players. that's like kurb bragging about how good at sex he is because he can masturbate 16 times in an hour.

I think the odds heavily favor Pep being the best DE ever in a Carolina uni.

well reggie white would probably like a word, but production wise over a career of course. That doesn't have anything to do with what he's doing now, however.

[grateflday]

i'd say from about halfway though 2003 until the first quarter of 2006 Peppers was probably a top three defensive end. However, for what are likely a plethora of reasons (i wouldn't count out the decline of Rucker, absence of Buckner) Peppers began falling off in 2006, and he really hasn't recovered.........

I agree with this 100%. I would even say that starting towards the end of '06 is when all the constant "double teaming" starting stopping.

[Snake]

i'd say from about halfway though 2003 until the first quarter of 2006 Peppers was probably a top three defensive end. However, for what are likely a plethora of reasons (i wouldn't count out the decline of Rucker, absence of Buckner) Peppers began falling off in 2006, and he really hasn't recovered.

i really don't like sacks as a good metric for evaluating players. that's like kurb bragging about how good at sex he is because he can masturbate 16 times in an hour.

well reggie white would probably like a word, but production wise over a career of course. That doesn't have anything to do with what he's doing now, however.

The fact is though I dont think Peppers has been declining as much as he has been wanting out. The Knock on Peppers coming out of Collage was that he was lazy and didnt have a high drive. Looking over the years now from 2003 to 2005 Peppers was dominating people and making then look like fools. From 2006 to 2008 we have all said we saw flashes of peppers and he needed people on the other side of him but I dont think thats the case at all. I think he was getting tried of playing kinda like Sanders did for the Lions except we are not that bad. He got the sacks he needed last year to get payed but he didnt do anything else.

Basically Peppers+lazyXchange=Quitter.