Removing the franchise tag from Julius Peppers is the best option.

[carolinarolls]

Hold on a second there. You say

If we don't know the facts, and you admit that you don't and are basing your opinion on reports that may or may not be accurate, hearsay in other words, how can you be so adamant that Hurney has made the wrong decision? How can you consider it a valid conclusion? Isn't it really just speculation? Couldn't this "war" between Carey and Hurney be nothing but media crap? And, if money has no part in this, isn't there at least some possibility that the changes in coaching staff could bridge the gap if Pep were to come in and see how/if things have changed? If you had nothing better to spend the cap space on, wouldn't it be worth keeping him around in the slight chance that he might see thing differently? How would that NOT be in the best interest of the team?

true. stranger things have happened. it is not really speculation though. It's my concluded opinion based on the facts I have so far.

[Sandy Claws]

true. stranger things have happened. it is not really speculation though. It's my concluded opinion based on the facts I have so far.

But it is speculation. We don't know how much of what has been reported are facts and we've already agreed that we don't know all the facts.

[carolinarolls]

But it is speculation. We don't know how much of what has been reported are facts and we've already agreed that we don't know all the facts.

Maybe we did not really land on the moon either and maybe there really is a bunker full of alien corpses in the New Mexico desert. Maybe Elvis really is alive. What is your point? I said we don't know everything. Are we supposed to wait until someone releases the official report of all the facts before we form an opinion about anything? And then why would we believe that?

If you are not looking for conjecture and opinion this board is the wrong place for you.

[mantal]

If we don't know the facts, and you admit that you don't and are basing your opinion on reports that may or may not be accurate, hearsay in other words, how can you be so adamant that Hurney has made the wrong decision? How can you consider it a valid conclusion? Isn't it really just speculation? Couldn't this "war" between Carey and Hurney be nothing but media crap? And, if money has no part in this, isn't there at least some possibility that the changes in coaching staff could bridge the gap if Pep were to come in and see how/if things have changed? If you had nothing better to spend the cap space on, wouldn't it be worth keeping him around in the slight chance that he might see thing differently? How would that NOT be in the best interest of the team?

You're alluding to another option that nobody is really talking about. That is that the Panthers had no intention of trading him from the beginning of the process. They offered him the largest, (at the time) deal in NFL history last year after a sub-par year, you know they value him. He's just coming off his best sack total season. A couple of million more when the cap went up over 6 million was something they were willing to do given that the team thinks they are very close to having all the parts in place to make a run.

Just a conjecture...

[Sandy Claws]

Maybe we did not really land on the moon either and maybe there really is a bunker full of alien corpses in the New Mexico desert. Maybe Elvis really is alive. What is your point? I said we don't know everything. Are we supposed to wait until someone releases the official report of all the facts before we form an opinion about anything? And then why would we believe that?

If you are not looking for conjecture and opinion this board is the wrong place for you.

I'm trying to get a feel for the basis of your opinion. Your posts clearly indicate that you are ready to crucify Hurney and you are willing to do it based on evidence that's close in quality to that supporting the bunker full of alien corpses or sasquatch in the Georgia woods. You even admitted not knowing all the facts, then stated your opinion was based on the facts, and now, you seem to admit that you base this all on conjecture. Pretty confusing.:confused:

[rayzor]

You're alluding to another option that nobody is really talking about. That is that the Panthers had no intention of trading him from the beginning of the process. They offered him the largest, (at the time) deal in NFL history last year after a sub-par year, you know they value him. He's just coming off his best sack total season. A couple of million more when the cap went up over 6 million was something they were willing to do given that the team thinks they are very close to having all the parts in place to make a run.

Just a conjecture...

i wouldn't say nobody has been talking about it.

people have been saying that the panthers have been asking too much but they haven't been if their intention has been all along to keep him. they had no reason to say they would take anything less than 2 first rounders. doesn't matter if that was an unrealistic expectation....that's probably what they were counting on.

people who say that the panthers "failed" to move peppers would have to prove that the panthers had any intention of doing that in the first place. they would have taken the 2 first rounders (or at least heard it out, they weren't shutting the doors to that kind of thing) but not much less than that.

[bleys]

I'm trying to get a feel for the basis of your opinion. Your posts clearly indicate that you are ready to crucify Hurney and you are willing to do it based on evidence that's close in quality to that supporting the bunker full of alien corpses or sasquatch in the Georgia woods. You even admitted not knowing all the facts, then stated your opinion was based on the facts, and now, you seem to admit that you base this all on conjecture. Pretty confusing.:confused:

What has been confusing (and maybe I'm even wrong here) about CR's topics is that of course it's conjecture, speculation, opinion... but it's HIS opinion and since it is, this is his "educated guess"... Therefore, he speaks as if it's true, because it's based off his educated guess (whether you want to knock that or not is another thread and personally, leave that to PMs)...

So instead of reading his words of "Hurney screwed this up." Read it as, "I think Hurney screwed this up."

Perhaps that will help you along the way... or perhaps I'm wrong. But that's how I read it.

[bleys]

i wouldn't say nobody has been talking about it.

people have been saying that the panthers have been asking too much but they haven't been if their intention has been all along to keep him. they had no reason to say they would take anything less than 2 first rounders. doesn't matter if that was an unrealistic expectation....that's probably what they were counting on.

people who say that the panthers "failed" to move peppers would have to prove that the panthers had any intention of doing that in the first place. they would have taken the 2 first rounders (or at least heard it out, they weren't shutting the doors to that kind of thing) but not much less than that.

in my opinion, and it actually is fact due to CBA agreement, the Panthers cannot FAIL to move Peppers until they have the OPPORTUNITY to move Peppers. Until he signs, the Panthers can't do anything.

Just wanted to clarify that those people are totally wrong if they do believe that. (not seen too many, but I'm sure it's there)

[mantal]

i wouldn't say nobody has been talking about it.

people have been saying that the panthers have been asking too much but they haven't been if their intention has been all along to keep him. they had no reason to say they would take anything less than 2 first rounders. doesn't matter if that was an unrealistic expectation....that's probably what they were counting on.

people who say that the panthers "failed" to move peppers would have to prove that the panthers had any intention of doing that in the first place. they would have taken the 2 first rounders (or at least heard it out, they weren't shutting the doors to that kind of thing) but not much less than that.

What I'm saying is nobody on here is really talking about it. I've not seen any threads looking at this possibility, though a few of us have mentioned it in several threads. Everybody sees is as a foregone conclusion that he's out of here and I just see it as a foregone conclusion that it never was an option...

[rayzor]

What I'm saying is nobody on here is really talking about it. I've not seen any threads looking at this possibility, though a few of us have mentioned it in several threads. Everybody sees is as a foregone conclusion that he's out of here and I just see it as a foregone conclusion that it never was an option...

agreed.

[Sandy Claws]

i wouldn't say nobody has been talking about it.

people have been saying that the panthers have been asking too much but they haven't been if their intention has been all along to keep him. they had no reason to say they would take anything less than 2 first rounders. doesn't matter if that was an unrealistic expectation....that's probably what they were counting on.

people who say that the panthers "failed" to move peppers would have to prove that the panthers had any intention of doing that in the first place. they would have taken the 2 first rounders (or at least heard it out, they weren't shutting the doors to that kind of thing) but not much less than that.

The Panthers never had the opportunity to discuss anything for trade compensation for Peppers. They are not allowed to discuss the trade of a player unless they have that player under contract. They simply point to the CBA which says that if Peppers signs an offer sheet with another team, the Panthers have the option to match or get 2 first round picks. Would they take less? We can speculate all day long. But the key may be in the other option.

Has anybody heard anything from any realiable source that Carey has even talked to any other team? If money is truly not part of this, then even teams with minimal cap space (Pep's childhood favorite Skins) should show interest, especially if they have a need at the position, wouldn't you think? You can argue all day over whether Pep is a top 5 DE or not, but even if considered middle of the pack, he has some value. Carey (or the other team) has to initiate the talk to determine that value. Every other FA, we hear all about the meetings and travel right down to which stall they used in the men's room at which airport. With Pep or Carey, we hear nothing. Is it possible that Pep has been told that the Panthers WILL match any offer? Wouldn't this make any negotiations with any other team moot?

On another note, Peppers has claimed to want to play in the 3-4 as an OLB. He was tagged as a DE which guarantees him the average of top 5 DE salaries or 120% of his prior year salary. Since his salary as a OLB for 2008 was ZERO, shouldn't his tender be reduced to $8.3 milion, the tag number for an OLB?

[Mr. Scot]

Has anybody heard anything from any realiable source that Carey has even talked to any other team? If money is truly not part of this, then even teams with minimal cap space (Pep's childhood favorite Skins) should show interest, especially if they have a need at the position, wouldn't you think? You can argue all day over whether Pep is a top 5 DE or not, but even if considered middle of the pack, he has some value. Carey (or the other team) has to initiate the talk to determine that value. Every other FA, we hear all about the meetings and travel right down to which stall they used in the men's room at which airport. With Pep or Carey, we hear nothing. Is it possible that Pep has been told that the Panthers WILL match any offer? Wouldn't this make any negotiations with any other team moot?

That's a question I've been asking as well.

I think Carey's honest expectation was either A) the Panthers would do the work for him by working out a trade with whatever team Julius wanted, or other teams would be beating down the door for Julius services and they could just sit back and weigh what offer they liekd best.

When they slapped the tag on him, the Panthers essentially said "You want a contract from another team? Go find it yourself." Carey doesn't seem equipped to do that, and no one else is going to do the work for him.

[Fireball77]

Good point. Wonder if they would have done that with a Rosenhaus client? They've never let those get that far. Heck I've never heard of a single agent besides Carey who let their client sign that long of a rookie deal for a guy drafted that high in the first round.

[Sandy Claws]

Heck I've never heard of a single agent besides Carey who let their client sign that long of a rookie deal for a guy drafted that high in the first round.

Carey wasn't his original agent. Peppers swapped from Marvin Demhoff to him in '06. Demhoff was far from new to the game.