It's looking more and more likely that Captain Munnerlyn will start again this season

[frash.exe]

they're still going through a learning process when it comes to running a franchise, and sooner or later they're going to find out how hard it is trying to develop players on the scale that we're operating on who are as green as goat poo and by and large aren't gifted athletes to begin with instead of bringing in free agents that can help us. They're the ones in charge so good for them.

[iamhubby1]

they're still going through a learning process when it comes to running a franchise, and sooner or later they're going to find out how hard it is trying to develop players on the scale that we're operating on who are as green as goat poo and by and large aren't gifted athletes to begin with instead of bringing in free agents that can help us. They're the ones in charge so good for them.

I admire how you flirt with facts to fit your opinion.

First. Ther reason yardage is up in the last 15 years is because completion % has risen as well. More passes being completed means more yardage being gained. Just plain 5th grade english.

Second. This is only year two in Rivera's reign. If you think he should have restocked the team already. I believe you are a tad too impatient. ST was a problem last year, it was addressed. D was a problem last year, it is being addressed. Just maybe not a quickly as popular opinion would prefer.

Third. Cherry picking posts as fodder for snide remarks is bush. A complaint without a solution is called a bitch. If you care not to be known as a bitch, maybe try and contribute a solution or two.

Lastly. The FO have a plan. They have their QB, now build a team. It is a process that takes more than one offseason. Most folks realize this. But by all means, continue to fap away.

Last Lastly. The only way you are successful immediately upon receipt of your franchise QB is if you were a pretty good team already. Cam was handed an empty gun. This year he has a few bullets. Next year, the gun will loaded.

[Marguide]

Last Lastly. The only way you are successful immediately upon receipt of your franchise QB is if you were a pretty good team already. Cam was handed an empty gun. This year he has a few bullets. Next year, the gun will loaded.

Agree with all your points except this last part.

One of the reasons I wanted Cam in last year's draft is because we had such a strong supporting cast on offense.

Think about it...we had a very solid o-line, two great running backs, Smitty, and Shockey. Compare that to what Luck is going to have in Indy this year.

We sucked in 2010 largely because of substandard QB play. Our roster (on offense at least) was far better than most teams with the #1 pick. We just needed that all important missing piece.

[megadeth078]

The offensive squad we had before drafting Cam was mediocre? That's the first I've heard of this....

I'd expect people that only get their news about this team from ESPN and Yahoo sports to think that Cam was the only reason our offense was good last season, but not from actual Panther fans.

[frash.exe]

I admire how you flirt with facts to fit your opinion.

First. Ther reason yardage is up in the last 15 years is because completion % has risen as well. More passes being completed means more yardage being gained. Just plain 5th grade english.

Second. This is only year two in Rivera's reign. If you think he should have restocked the team already. I believe you are a tad too impatient. ST was a problem last year, it was addressed. D was a problem last year, it is being addressed. Just maybe not a quickly as popular opinion would prefer.

Third. Cherry picking posts as fodder for snide remarks is bush. A complaint without a solution is called a bitch. If you care not to be known as a bitch, maybe try and contribute a solution or two.

Lastly. The FO have a plan. They have their QB, now build a team. It is a process that takes more than one offseason. Most folks realize this. But by all means, continue to fap away.

Last Lastly. The only way you are successful immediately upon receipt of your franchise QB is if you were a pretty good team already. Cam was handed an empty gun. This year he has a few bullets. Next year, the gun will loaded.

First of all, apparently you failed 5th grade English because you can't proofread for poo, so don't start trying to spell things out for people logically.

Second, plenty of teams in recent history have turned it around with a new head coach in a year, so it's not unreasonable to have expectations, but that's beside the point. I'm not harping at how Rivera builds a team with the resources he's given by Hurney. That said, yes, they have a "plan", but every coach and GM in the league has their own unique plan, and because of the fact that this league is obviously structured as a competition, some plans are better than others, and other plans are much better than others. Take a look at our record since 2009 and you'll see how well our plan has been doing.

Whether most people care to admit or not because the pollyanna patrol on this board gets suffocating at times, Captain Munnerlyn wouldn't have convinced most other franchises to simply ignore attempting to strengthen the competition at corner, let alone make an upgrade, until the 5th round of the draft. His performance last year was beyond abysmal. You can blame it on the defense, you can blame it on Gamble playing well (really?), you can blame it on the theory that it takes 5 years to build a contender team, but this is the kind of excuse making I've gotten used to on this board. In contrast, Devin McCourty had a horrible 2011 campaign and is immersed in competition. He's not competing with a bunch of injured guys and camp fodder for the no.2 Corner spot like Captain is.

As for the rest of your post, it's clear you're a guy who simply supports the status quo of a team no matter what decision they make. It's okay to simply be that guy if you flat out admit you're here to do that. But trying to rationalize it without doing the proper fact-checking, and expressing it in the most basic, half-assed fashion makes you out to be a guy who's told himself 1000 times in his head that every decision they make is right so that they believe it. Your ilk argues, poorly, about how things will work out and then when it doesn't, in true panther homer fashion, you blame it on something intangible so that no accountability is distributed and everybody still looks good. By doing such you're conditioning your mind to believe stupid poo like Hurney is a top 5 General Manager, the Delhomme extension wasn't a colossal failure, Jeff Otah wasn't a bust, and so on.

It's getting clearer and clearer to me that this forum isn't a place for debate among informed football fans. It's more like a place where you post a tits gif in lieu of any analysis whatsoever in the panthers section so 18 people can pie you, or show off your chincy panthers tattoo that you got inked on your pale calf that doesn't see sunlight unless you make your walk to the grocery store, or proclaim that this is the year Godfrey breaks out I swear he will and I've got nothing to back this up but if you disagree with me I will respond aggressively while not doing a lick of research so you have to agree with me.

...And I'd bet that you'd prefer this place be a hotbed for deluded homerism and hotlinks to softcore tumblr porn, instead of an objective haven for Panther fans who don't think they need to overrate every single entity dwelling within this franchise to support their team.

[iamhubby1]

Agree with all your points except this last part.

One of the reasons I wanted Cam in last year's draft is because we had such a strong supporting cast on offense.

Think about it...we had a very solid o-line, two great running backs, Smitty, and Shockey. Compare that to what Luck is going to have in Indy this year.

We sucked in 2010 largely because of substandard QB play. Our roster (on offense at least) was far better than most teams with the #1 pick. We just needed that all important missing piece.

I was speaking in generalities. Usually, in order to get a Cam, you usually have to suck. Which would mean you have to build a team for him. You may have some pieces in place, but in general, you have a lot of building to do.

Granted, last year at this time we thought the D was ahead of the O. Even though we had talent on the O, we thought it would take time for Cam to develop. We thought the D could keep us in games and maybe Cam could win it late, or some such dramatic dream.

The reality was, the D disappointed. Big time. We thought we were getting an improved 2010 D, a D that was at least reliable. What we got was, well, less than abysmal.

So forgive me if I remember that just two years ago, we had a decent D. That injured players that lead to the lack of production last year, are returning. Mix in a sprinkling of draft picks with a smattering of FAs, and I can envision a D that can get the job done. Add in Rivera being involved for good measure, and I absolutely see a chance at a very productive D.

Call me a homer, but I can see it. And GOOOOO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[frash.exe]

Also I love how you made the same argument about completion percentage increasing passing yards, to which I previously countered with a slew of articles and analysis of play selection that contradicted the bullshit you were spewing that shut you up, so you wait until now to reference it again. Here, again, so that iamhubby looks like a moron, is an article which tells you there's a slew of factors contributing to the increase in passing yards and, what do you know if you do the math in pass attempts in the last 25 years you'll see they've gone up.

[frash.exe]

you see guys? We're only in year 2! It takes 5,431,093 years to build a competitive team! PATIENCE PEOPLE!

Now here's some gay extended metaphor about how we're cooking up a defense like it's the fuging French Chef with Julia Child and not the NFL. Hey why don't we add some pepper up our players' asses to this recipe while we're at it? Ron certainly did today when he bitched the team out for half-assing practice.

iamhubby, over and out

[Captain Obvious]

You need to watch moar football! Julio Jones, Hakeem Nicks, Mike Williams, and Devery Henderson in order left-to-right. All WRs that Captain will face in the 1st 4 weeks

Also, let's not overrate Captain...he's good for what he is. Decent 4th CB/Special Teamer. Nickle CB at best. Hard Worker and Scrappy, but just too limited as a starting CB... And it's not like Captain is excelling in camp... He's basically the 2nd CB only because of lack of competition.

thank you. sometimes i think most sports stars could walk up to me and say hi and I wouldn't know who they were.

[Captain Obvious]

man i hope you are not serious.and i cannot call captain a good CB.NFL worthy yeah,good no.

yep I had no idea who they were.

[HeatCheck]

Yes I can say the past is different from the present unless you believe that people can't and don't change. That goes against everything I believe in. And again inconsistent play in the past has nothing to do with how a guy plays in the future just like if you saw Aaron Rodgers in his third season when he didn't play at all you would be able to assume he will never amount to anything and would never have a passer rating of 122 a few years later. For that matter his first year of starting full-time has little to do with how he did last year.

Players get better or they don't play, lets see what happens.

So going back to my original question, it seems like you still believe Clausen can make it in this league. Especially considering we've seen less of him on the field than Captain.

Captain is more of a proven commodity and you should know what you are getting out of him. (And I am in no way saying I think Jimmy will be a starting QB, just using your logic/optimism)

And don't compare him to Rodgers who didn't play. He was playing behind Favre. Munnerlyn has seen the field and we've seen what he could do. He hasn't seen competition and that is why he is getting the default nod.

Captain is not a good CB...to suggest he's EVER played anything other than the slot passably is ridiculous. He didn't play well in 2010 when Gamble was benched, he didn't play well in 2011 (his only "good game" had nothing to do with his actual coverage, a good stripped fumble and ST play made the Minnesota game his only positive contribution to the 2011 season).

His biggest handicap isn't even his size, it's his inability to track and stick with WRs past 10 yards. That's why he's decent covering the slot guy, where his area of responsibility is limited. Any time he's tried to cover an outside WR he gets killed on moves, speed, height, everything an outside WR is supposed to do. He gets abused. He gets turned around, lost and confused. He's an excellent special teams guy, one of the best we have at running down a PR or KR and will have a spot on the team for a long time for that. But if he's our starting #2, LT in his prime, JP, Jared Allen, Demarcus Ware, Warren Sapp and John Randall couldn't make up for how badly he'll get exploited again.

Exactly. It's not his size, he's just not that good. Place him in the slot where he isn't as isolated.

Although, really he is a physical CB so not sure why his size would be a problem. You'd think since he was smaller he'd be quicker and stay with people, but that isn't the case.

[panthers55]

So going back to my original question, it seems like you still believe Clausen can make it in this league. Especially considering we've seen less of him on the field than Captain.

Captain is more of a proven commodity and you should know what you are getting out of him. (And I am in no way saying I think Jimmy will be a starting QB, just using your logic/optimism)

And don't compare him to Rodgers who didn't play. He was playing behind Favre. Munnerlyn has seen the field and we've seen what he could do. He hasn't seen competition and that is why he is getting the default nod.

Look I understand the old he has played before and we know what he can do routine. And frankly I am not convinced he is starter material or will make a good number 2 starter. At this point we are going into our first preseason game and nobody knows what he will do or won't do.

I am just saying that it is premature to write him off and make pejorative proclamations of his ability based on past performance. He may struggle going forward or may be much improved. I am just pointing out that there is a rich history of players in the NFL who have struggled their first few years only to emerge down the road. Whether he is one of those players or not remains to be seen.

I honestly don't know why any fan of the team wouldn't want to be optimistic and hopeful particularly before the season even started.

[DaCityKats]

please do.

While you are at it, provide their height, weight, and link. Let see it.

Take your time, the huddle will wait.

i didnt say that because of size, but because of talent.Gamble is the only good CB on this team. with captain you know what you are going to get, a short, slow, aggressive CB that teams picked on last year.

[Rubi]

Godfrey was rated worse than Martin per PFF.....

With no pass rush and no coverage....why would teams look to push things and gamble throwing at Gamble? Throwing at Capt was smart....but his supporting cast aided in him being an easy target. He isn't great.... But better than the garbage some suggest

We can make excuses. But I hope he can perform. But it may just be he is outmatched as a #2 CB.