Defense: Scheme vs Stacking Talent

[frash.exe]

I have pretty much out-foxed any opposition to my evidence, so the last resort I guess is to talk about how you will support someone as long as he's on the team we all love.

...can't help but to think if we actually were that daring how quick you people would defend Fox against the people who would trash a first round draft selection.

[Ccat]

yes I don't get it.

I don't get why people are so quick to enslave themselves to the status quo.

I'm not enslaving myself. There is nothing I can do to change it. That's what you don't understand. Yes I wish we had a better QB, but I can't just make that happen magically so I'm not going to waste my time bitching about Jake when I can't change it.

[mantal]

I have pretty much out-foxed any opposition to my evidence, so the last resort I guess is to talk about how you will support someone as long as he's on the team we all love.

...can't help but to think if we actually were that daring how quick you people would defend Fox against the people who would trash a first round draft selection.

So ludicrous it even defies reaction...

[R0CKnR0LLA]

So ludicrous it even defies reaction...

But... but... we are slaves to the status quo!! :rofl: :rofl:

[panthers55]

I have pretty much out-foxed any opposition to my evidence, so the last resort I guess is to talk about how you will support someone as long as he's on the team we all love.

...can't help but to think if we actually were that daring how quick you people would defend Fox against the people who would trash a first round draft selection.

What you call outfoxing I call persistence and wearing others down ad nauseum. Some of us think of this as a discussion board to exchange ideas not a battle to see who wins and who loses. Until there is money involved I can't see how you are any better off whether you supposedly win or lose. Congratulations, you are a legend in your own mind!!! It does explain why you go on and on and have to get the last word in.

As for anyone trashing the Panthers if they pick a first round quarterback, it would depend on the result and who they had to pass up along the way. If we spend 70 or 80 million to sign them, who can't we sign then. Where do we settle for average or run of the mill because we run out of money. We would have the same issue we are having now with Peppers. Plus we would likely be a few years before anyone could tell if it was a good pick or not.

Given the whining that a number of folks did when we didn't start Moore right away even though he wasn't ready, the bigger bitching and complaining would come from those who applaud the initial move and then quickly turn on Fox for not throwing him out there right away. If Fox did, hopefully it would work out better than it did for Collins and Weinke.

[frash.exe]

So ludicrous it even defies reaction...

you know what else is ludicrous?

making fun of building collapse without being 100% sure nobody got hurt in the accident.

...no, I retract that last one. That isn't ludicrous, it's just plain asinine.

[DaveThePanther2008]

I knew that this was where this thread was going.

You want to make it sound like all our defensive players were Panther 1st rounders. Our F.O. is to credit for getting players mired in wrong schemes and bring them to a team where there talents can flourish. Peppers, Davis, Gamble, Beason are our only four 1st rounders.

Brayton stuck in a 3-4 scheme and was a 4-3 DE. (also plays some DT)

Kemo Baltimore developed him but didn't want to pay him (See Will Witherspoon) So What that they developed him. We develop players too.

Lewis failed in St. Louis but we brought him here and DEVELOPED him into a fine DT.

Diggs a solid player for us. What Free Agency is all about.

Ken Lucas see Kemo.

Harris traded a pick for.

Godfrey great pick up in round 3.

I see a solid defensive team built through shrew business decisions and smart analysis of players.

Just like offensively. Gross, Stewart, Williams, Otah. Hmmmm Ironic Four 1st Rounders. Finding players that are buried on other teams and filling a need. Remember that where we got Jake.

Your long winded attempt to point out that we need to take a QB with the 1st pick was wasted.

Just because each team develops player differently has no bearing on drafting a 1st round QB.

[pstall]

Great post RB.

I have said it a billion times. Pitt, Philly, NE some for BAL and now Ten all have a SYSTEM.

The best player available is a DUMB way to build your team. Ask Detroit.

It's a budget for your home. You plan ahead for vacations, car repairs etc, so you are NEVER surprised.

Thats what these teams do. They simply replace a younger version of the guy they cut or became a FA . They NEVER reach for a player. If they trade up its simply because they have their eye on them and don't want anyone to snag them because that other team is thinking BPA.

The Panthers are not there yet on systems. Maybe it starts this year with Meeks.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

I have said it a billion times. Pitt, Philly, NE some for BAL and now Ten all have a SYSTEM.

This is what I'm sayin! That whole "strong defense, run the ball" junk Fox talks about is just a sham. When has that so called "system" ever won games for anyone?

The best player available is a DUMB way to build your team.

Exactly! You should just forget value and pick the players that you like and fit your system, like the Raiders do. Last I checked they have super bowl trophies and we don't.

The Panthers are not there yet on systems. Maybe it starts this year with Meeks.

I hope some serious changes are made! I sure as hell don't want another mediocre 12-4 season and bring back the same mediocre players that got us there. Wake up FO, we need some changes!

[panthers55]

I have to agree with RB on one point. It is time for Jake to step up and have a good year this year. With him missing almost all of 2007 and being inconsistent in 2008 as he recovered from elbow surgery, it is time to see him be consistent and benefit from a new quarterback coach and a return to the basics.

That is what we agree on. But there is a big difference. RB doesn't think it is going to happen where I think it will. The other difference is that Jake's performance in 2009 will help determine how I feel about his leading our team for the next several years or whether we need to replace him. For RB he has already made up his mind.

It isn't about which is right or better or even which proves to be more accurate. It just isn't me. Probably why we end up on the opposite end of some issues.

[Raskle]

To me, the best thing that could have happened to Jake, was the departure of that spineless sycophant McCoy. With a REAL QB coach in place, I'm thinking all of our QBs will be better this year. So, this is how I can see it playing out:

Moore sits another year behind Jake this season.

Next year (sorry Scot) McCown is allowed to walk.

Jake is either still starting or moved to the backup position dependant on his performance this year, with Moore flip-flopping that decision.

We pick up a QB in next year's draft with our 2nd or 3rd to sit and groom behind Jake and Moore for 3-4 years.

In 3-4 years, we reevaluate our QB situation, with either the draft pick or Moore being our starter, bring in another draftee for the #3 spot to groom again. Jake has retired by then.

This is how dynasties draft for the future. I'm hoping the Panthers go this direction.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Raskle, pretty much all the signs point to that being what direction we are going in. Looks like a solid plan for the future if you ask me. I don't know why so many people are running around like chickens with their heads cut off. I guess we didn't win the super bowl, so they need something to whine about, and after that playoff game QB is the most obvious thing.

[scpanther22]

To me, the best thing that could have happened to Jake, was the departure of that spineless sycophant McCoy. With a REAL QB coach in place, I'm thinking all of our QBs will be better this year. So, this is how I can see it playing out:

Moore sits another year behind Jake this season.

Next year (sorry Scot) McCown is allowed to walk.

Jake is either still starting or moved to the backup position dependant on his performance this year, with Moore flip-flopping that decision.

We pick up a QB in next year's draft with our 2nd or 3rd to sit and groom behind Jake and Moore for 3-4 years.

In 3-4 years, we reevaluate our QB situation, with either the draft pick or Moore being our starter, bring in another draftee for the #3 spot to groom again. Jake has retired by then.

This is how dynasties draft for the future. I'm hoping the Panthers go this direction.

is that how.pitt and NE..did it...:nono:

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Actually NE has done a great job at getting mid-late round QBs and developing them. Granted Moore is an UDFA not a 6th rounder like Brady, but well.. tomayto, tomahto