Defense: Scheme vs Stacking Talent

[frash.exe]

A comprehensive comparison of 2008 ranked defenses.

Panthers (Mike Trgovac):

Breakdown of starters:

1st rounders: Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Chris Gamble, Julius Peppers

FAs/trades: Tyler Brayton, Damione Lewis, Maake Kemoeatu, Chris Harris, Na'il Diggs, Ken Lucas

3rd rounders: Charles Godfrey

Other Contributors: Charles Johnson (3rd), Richard Marshall (2nd),

Review: Only a single player started most of the season, who didn't cost us a first round draft pick or wasn't an acquisition. Tyler Brayton, an underrated run-stopping DE had been originally a first round draft pick, as well as Damione Lewis. Maake Kemoeatu was originally a UDFA pick up who played NT in Baltimore's 3-4. Baltimore developed him, and we now benefit from the product. Same case with Ken Lucas, who flourished in Seattle, and who we picked up. Chris Harris found some success with the Bears before he came here. Ditto for Na'il Diggs.

New York Giants (Steve Spagnuolo):

First rounders: Mathias Kiwanuka, Aaron Ross

Round 2: Fred Robbins, Corey Webster

Round 3: Justin Tuck

Round 4: Bryan Kehl

Round 6: Barry Cofield

Round 7: Michael Johnson

FA: Danny Clark, Antonio Pierce

Undrafted: James Butler

Other Contributors: Kenny Phillips (1st), Chase Blackburn (UD), Kevin Dockery (UD), Terrell Thomas (2nd)

Review: Much more diverse. Only two free agents contributed as starters for most of the season. Many no-name guys contributed and you wouldn't think they can be productive, but as a unit they seem to flourish.

Pittsburgh Steelers (Dick LeBeau):

First Rounders: Casey Hampton, Troy Polamalu

Round 2: Lamar Woodley

Round 4: Larry Foote, Aaron Smith, Ike Taylor, Deshea Townsend

Round 7: Brett Keisel

FA: James Farrior, Ryan Clark

Undrafted: James Harrison (Defensive MVP)

Other Contributors: William Gay (5th), Anthony Madison (UD), Lawrence Timmons (1st), Travis Kirschke (FA)

Review: Only 2 first round starters as well. James Farrior had first round origin as a Jet. Ryan Clark, safety went undrafted and found some success with the Redskins (I guess it was like a Chris Harris caliber acquisition). Not bad ranking 1st in total defense in the regular season for a team. Not bad for a team who's passed up defense to select QBs, TEs, WRs, and OGs in the first round.

Philadelphia Eagles (Jim Johnson):

1st round: Broderick Bunkley, Mike Patterson

2nd round: Sheldon Brown, Brian Dawkins

3rd round: Chris Gocong, Stewart Bradley

5th round: Trent Cole

Undrafted: Akeem Jordan, Quintin Mikell

FA: Juqua Parker, Asante Samuel

Other Contributors: Omar Gaither (5th), Darren Howard (FA), Joselio Hanson (FA)

Review: Juqua Parker was a very low tier FA acquisition, Joselio Hanson actually played in NFLE after a year with the niners in which he didn't see much playing time before Philly picked him up. Another team which only had a sum of 4 talented acquisitions to start with when they picked them up and the rest has been player development.

Baltimore Ravens (Rex Ryan):

1st round: Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, Ed Reed, Ray Lewis

4th round: Jarret Johnson

FA: Justin Bannan, Trevor Pryce, Samari Rolle, Fabian Washington, Jim Leonhard

Undrafted: Bart Scott

Other Contributors: Corey Ivy (FA), Frank Walker (FA), Jameel McClain (UD)

Review: Justin Bannan, Jim Leonhard, Corey Ivy, and Frank Walker were all lower tier free agents. Both Terrell Suggs and Ray Lewis are long tenured first round draft picks. The Ravens have spent most of their first round picks on offense since 2003, yet they've been able to field top ten defense every single year since then.

Tennessee Titans (Jim Schwartz):

1st Round: Albert Haynesworth, Jevon Kearse, Keith Bullock, Michael Griffin

2nd Round: Kyle Vandenbosch

4th Round: Stephen Tulloch

7th Round: Cortland Finnegan

FA: Tony Brown, David Thornton, Nick Harper, Chris Hope

Other Contributors: Vincent Fuller (4th), Ryan Fowler (FA), Dave Ball (FA), Jacob Ford (6th)

Review: The Panthers both had their hands on Dave Ball and Tony Brown before Tennessee integrated them in their system, and couldn't develop them. Nick Harper and David Thornton have origins in the Colts where they thrived as starters, they weren't even first round picks. David Thornton went 4th round and Harper was undrafted. Jevon Kearse was originally a Titan before he went to Philly. Keith Bullock has been a starter for 9 seasons since he was a rookie.

Indianapolis Colts (Ron Meeks):

1st Round: Dwight Freeney

2nd Round: Bob Sanders, Tim Jennings, Kelvin Hayden

3rd Round: Freddy Keiaho

4th Round: Clint Session

5th Round: Robert Mathis

6th Round: Antoine Bethea

7th Round: Keyunta Dawson

Undrafted: Gary Brackett, Eric Foster

Other Contributors: Melvin Bullitt (UD), Raheem Brock (FA), Tim Jennings (2nd)

Review: One of the purest drafting and development defenses I've seen today. No starter had originated from another team last season, yet the Colts ranked 7th in scoring defense last season. Raheem Brock was drafted by the Eagles however he was only a PS member, he made his regular season debut as a Colt. Ron Meeks is now our defensive coordinator, I have an intuition we won't need to be creaming over every single first round MUST HAVE defensive player, because he is one of the best at doing more with less.

[mantal]

Started out the post by quoting the Trgovac was the expert, stopped reading at that point...

[frash.exe]

what are you talking about

[vorbis]

Started out the post by quoting the Trgovac was the expert, stopped reading at that point...

did you ever!

[frash.exe]

mintal I'm not listing the Panthers because Trgo's a defensive guru, I'm comparing the strategies for building defense between just getting the best talent you can to fill in every single spot (Panthers) vs mostly developing draft picks, undrafted players, players who were picked up as low tier free agents (everybody else)

[vorbis]

as for the content - i wonder how much influence a d-coordinator has in who is drafted. it may be an organizational philosophy to draft raw players who will then grow into defined roles in the defense. still, it can't hurt to have someone who has experience taking lesser-regarded draft picks and UDFAs and transforming them into useful parts of a successful defense.

[scpanther22]

what are you trying to say in your post

[R0CKnR0LLA]

I've been saying for awhile, with the talent we have on D, there's no reason we shouldn't be in the top 10. Meeks will get us there, he did it with less talent in Indy.

[mantal]

mintal I'm not listing the Panthers because Trgo's a defensive guru, I'm comparing the strategies for building defense between just getting the best talent you can to fill in every single spot (Panthers) vs mostly developing draft picks, undrafted players, players who were picked up as low tier free agents (everybody else)

I understand, but when I saw Trgo's name at the top, it was over. Trgo is gone, completely and I'm one who applauds it. I won't go back, sorry to possibly ruin your thread, but that ship has sailed for me, end of story...

[frash.exe]

Somebody now, tell me, what all these other teams besides the Panthers that start out with less talented players to develop and end up with better defense have on their team?

*Hint: It's an element on offense.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

what are you trying to say in your post

This is just another lame attempt to say we HAVE to get a QB round 1, even though we don't even have a 1st rounder next year.

[frash.exe]

I understand, but when I saw Trgo's name at the top, it was over. Trgo is gone, completely and I'm one who applauds it. I won't go back, sorry to possibly ruin your thread, but that ship has sailed for me, end of story...

this thread has little to do with Trgovac, but more to do with teams' strategies at building top defense, and a habit of people on this forum to desire an influx of defensive talent every single year above all other priorities when it's been the scheme all along and not the players we've had.

[mantal]

Somebody now, tell me, what all these other teams besides the Panthers that start out with less talented players to develop and end up with better defense have on their team?

*Hint: It's an element on offense.

Ahhh, could it be quarterback? Just lay off it, we know how you feel. Hopefully we will upgrade in a year or two, but since you have no solution other than to trash, (and there isn't one), you really need to let up...

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Somebody now, tell me, what all these other teams besides the Panthers that start out with less talented players to develop and end up with better defense have on their team?

*Hint: It's an element on offense.

LOL See what I mean...

Sure lets trade our QB situation with the Titans! Woohoo!!