Top QBs: Last 16 years

[panthers55]

I thought we had Basanez for 3 years? Maybe, I'm wrong on that. As for Moore, sure it's too early to completely judge him, but he looked significantly worse last year than soon after he got here. I thought it was pretty clear we sucked at developing QBs, hence the change in staff.

McCoy left on his own accord to accept the offensive coordinator position at Denver. He took a promotion he wasn't fired. Seems that other folks had a pretty high opinion of him.

[DaveThePanther2008]

I'm not trying to be an ass.

I'm just not subjecting myself to be a slave to the status quo, that many people gleefully accept any happenstance that may come about. I think independently, and I'm coming out with facts that speak to the contrary of Fox's philosophy. That are telling me, the low-risk/low-reward strategy has historically not returned as well, and if you are going to make a mark in this league sometimes you have to put the chips in and go for it.

If that makes me a "hater" in your eyes than I guess that's your opinion. It really doesn't make me lose sleep at night. I don't care, I'm going to say what I want and if it frustrates people that's their business. But... I'm sorry, I'm just a bit more blunt. I can tell you I feel good about just about every other facet of our game right now, but QB is very, very, very, questionable and possibly our most unstable area of the game. It also happens to be just about the single most important position out of all of them.

Say we traded up in the 1st round and get any one of the three QB's that you so desperately want us to take. Pick whichever one you want. These QB's went 19 or higher. So not only are we going to have to give up next years 1st but also a 3rd and 5th this year. (that is being generous)

So we have a QB now, You gotta put him at the helm right away. Gotta cut one QB (Moore). We also lost Everett Brown and Duke Robinson because of the decision.

According to your stats and mine this guy has a 50/50 chance of becoming a star. If he success we still lose. We never addressed our issues on defense enough to fix our problem. So we will hopefully rely on Meeks and UDFA to fix those issues.

If he fails. Now we lost 3 young players in Moore, Edwards and Robinson. Our offense now has to either go back to Jake or onto McCown. We have to keep Freeman because you cannot just let a 1st rounder go after one year.

You say "you have to put the chips in and go for it" All for the POSSIBILITY of a 1st rounder being the next superstar. The sad part is. He might eventually be better than Jake but are you willing to throw away 3 or 4 season waiting for him to blossom?

We are on the cusp of being Championship caliber. You want to throw a new QB in because you don't like Jake? Thank god you aren't the GM. We would be the Lions SOUTH.

My opinion is and alot of other agree. (including Management) Jake CAN get the job done and our backups are capable players.

[Galvatron]

How about a strong run game, ELITE defense and an great qb works for Pitt

Fixed

[rayzor]

RB, you did a good job. good analysis.

i'm in agreement that we need to have QB as a priority for next year and that there is no better year to have that for a couple reasons.

1) there is an incredible class of QBs coming out and 6 or 7 of them could be quality starters on a number of teams, including ours.

2) we have very little in the way of FAs next year.

3) our needs list is going to be somewhat small. no reason to think that QB isn't one of them.

we need to be addressing jake's successor. if moore is it and he is going to be the stud QB we have been craving, fine. i'm not completely sold on that, though, and if there is going to be someone better to lead the panthers into the future than moore then next year would be a perfect time.

i want them to look at all available options and i want them to find someone better than moore or anyone else on the roster. i want them to find the best.

because there is so much in the way of talented QBs coming out next year (as well as a good bit of FA QBs hitting the market next year) i could see us moving up in the draft to grab one much like we did for brown. someone will fall within reach of a small trade.

just because we don't have an actual 1st round pick next year ("we do have one, his name is everette brown blah blah blah", you know what i mean) doesn't mean that we won't have one. it doesn't meant that we aren't going to be able to draft a 1st round quality player next year.

in case you are curious about the list of FAs we have after the season:

Josh McCown UFA

Matt Moore RFA

Jeff King UFA

James Anderson UFA

Thomas Davis UFA

Richard Marshall UFA

Nate Salley UFA

Quinton Teal RFA

[panthers55]

RB, you did a good job. good analysis.

i'm in agreement that we need to have QB as a priority for next year and that there is no better year to have that for a couple reasons.

1) there is an incredible class of QBs coming out and 6 or 7 of them could be quality starters on a number of teams, including ours.

2) we have very little in the way of FAs next year.

3) our needs list is going to be somewhat small. no reason to think that QB isn't one of them.

we need to be addressing jake's successor. if moore is it and he is going to be the stud QB we have been craving, fine. i'm not completely sold on that, though, and if there is going to be someone better to lead the panthers into the future than moore then next year would be a perfect time.

i want them to look at all available options and i want them to find someone better than moore or anyone else on the roster. i want them to find the best.

because there is so much in the way of talented QBs coming out next year (as well as a good bit of FA QBs hitting the market next year) i could see us moving up in the draft to grab one much like we did for brown. someone will fall within reach of a small trade.

just because we don't have an actual 1st round pick next year ("we do have one, his name is everette brown blah blah blah", you know what i mean) doesn't mean that we won't have one. it doesn't meant that we aren't going to be able to draft a 1st round quality player next year.

in case you are curious about the list of FAs we have after the season:

Josh McCown UFA

Matt Moore RFA

Jeff King UFA

James Anderson UFA

Thomas Davis UFA

Richard Marshall UFA

Nate Salley UFA

Quinton Teal RFA

I would agree. But unless there is a run on them in the first round, I wouldn't move up into the first and would pick them in the second or third round. Much much cheaper, still good talent and it doesn't pressure us to have to start him day one. There are at least a few quarterbacks who are projected in the late first round who fall to the second or third rounds.

[dexterpyro]

In the last three years the draft has produced 6 starters as of this day. As in they are projected to be starting this coming season.

4 first round QBs - Ryan, Flacco, Cutler, Russel

2 outside first round - Edwards, Jackson

Flacco and Russel are not better than Edwards or Jackson. Add in that Young, Leinart and Quinn have all been put into the starting line up and then pulled form the starting line up simply because they are not ready. In my opinion Flacco and Russel are either not ready or simply not good enough to warrant being first rounders AND starting. The simple fact is, that other than Ryan I can pretty much bet most of the coaches would have prefered that first round QB to be sitting until year three.

In my mind we can't justify picking a first round QB when most of our players are in their prime. By the time the QB is actually ready, we will have had to lose a few players due to the QBs contract making it impossible to extend one or two important players. Then people such as Gross, Pep, Ma'ake, Lewis, Harris, Smith might either be on the twilight of their careers or no longer with the team.

This team needs and wants to win now. There is not a huge wealth of dominating teams at the moment and all have their holes, so it makes sense on picking guys who can contribute straight off the bat. Then we can pick up someone through rounds 2-7 on a nominal contract and play the numbers game. We can then pick again two years later. It makes the same statistical sense as drafting a QB in the first round, so why not if we have to wait for them to be ready anyway?!

:iagree:

[rayzor]

We should have never obtained Vinnie...no disrespect to him.

The call to obtain him I still dont get. We already had back ups on the bench who were more familar with our system. What was the point of having them? That was a prefect time to see what we had and to groom.

i didn't see that anyone answered you so i will.

we went into training camp with 4 QBs but only planned on keeping 3. those 3 were going to be jake, carr, and basenez. baz gets put on IR because he tore a ligament in his arm during a preseason game. they went out and stole moore off the cowboys practice squad. this was after training camp was over.

a couple games into the season we lose jake. no problem, we have carr who has lots of starting experience and a training camp under his belt so he's somewhat familiar with the system and moore who, well, no panthers training camp and is a rookie. no pro football experience and no real knowledge of the system.

week 5 rolls in and carr gets his back hurt. they don't know how serious it is going to be or how serious it could get. that leaves...moore. not good. very little knowledge of the system and still incredibly raw. they went out and grabbed vinny because he was available, still talented, and had enough experience and knowledge to pick up any system quickly.

point is, we didn't have back ups on the bench who was more familiar with our system. we had a hurting QB with a fragile psyche and a rookie who didn't have the benefit of TC and not much time on the team at all.

[rayzor]

I would agree. But unless there is a run on them in the first round, I wouldn't move up into the first and would pick them in the second or third round. Much much cheaper, still good talent and it doesn't pressure us to have to start him day one. There are at least a few quarterbacks who are projected in the late first round who fall to the second or third rounds.

because there is so much in the way of talented QBs coming out next year (as well as a good bit of FA QBs hitting the market next year) i could see us moving up in the draft to grab one much like we did for brown. someone will fall within reach of a small trade.

just because we don't have an actual 1st round pick next year ... doesn't mean that we won't have one. it doesn't meant that we aren't going to be able to draft a 1st round quality player next year.

that meant that we very well could draft a 1st round quality QB in the 2nd like we did with brown.

[Fireball77]

Vinnie wasn't the greatest QB or anything, but he was good for the team that year in many ways. I was glad to see him there.

[rayzor]

Vinnie wasn't the greatest QB or anything, but he was good for the team that year in many ways. I was glad to see him there.

it did help and gave us the only real sense of pride that year. it wasn't much but it helped. i know williams is glad he was here.

[Galvatron]

None of the FA QBs for next year really do anything for me. But then again if Moore isn't ready to start and McCown is signed somewhere else what are you going to do? You want someone with experience. IMO the FO looked at the landscape coming up next year and decided that Jake was the choice they wanted to make...too bad we can't sign away Ben, Eli, or Philip :-)

[Dingo_ate_Babies]

I'm not trying to be an ass.

I'm just not subjecting myself to be a slave to the status quo, that many people gleefully accept any happenstance that may come about. I think independently, and I'm coming out with facts that speak to the contrary of Fox's philosophy. That are telling me, the low-risk/low-reward strategy has historically not returned as well, and if you are going to make a mark in this league sometimes you have to put the chips in and go for it.

If that makes me a "hater" in your eyes than I guess that's your opinion. It really doesn't make me lose sleep at night. I don't care, I'm going to say what I want and if it frustrates people that's their business. But... I'm sorry, I'm just a bit more blunt. I can tell you I feel good about just about every other facet of our game right now, but QB is very, very, very, questionable and possibly our most unstable area of the game. It also happens to be just about the single most important position out of all of them.

word

[chbright]

this is like the 5th time its been brought up over the off-season. that said i remember doing a 10 year search of all the qbs drafted over that time and found similar numbers looking at top 5 passer rating and SB Qbs. same thing kept cropping up. 1st rounds were around 30%, others rounds and UDFA each 10% or lower.

bottom line yes the "bust" rate is there with a 1st round qb, but if you want a top flight passer (that gets to SB, passer rating whatever), your more likely to find one in the 1st than try any other round or UDFA.

[guyinchesapeake]

In my opinion, a more realistic stat to start with when evaluating QBs is their win-loss percentage. There have been a slew of QBs thru the years who threw for lots of yards but didn't achieve many wins. Conversely, there have been those who didn't top the stats but won big. It's all about fitting in with the system in place on any given team. The QB rating system is a joke, just look on the Hall of Fame's list to see who is on it, and more importantly, who is not!

Another useful stat is comeback wins, i.e., how many times in how many opportunities has a QB led his team to win, or at least tie, in the 4th quarter?

Stats don't mean much unless a correlation can be made with success, or lack there of.