pff rb age of decline

[rayzor]

So you are saying that a teams backfield should be taking up roughly 10% of a teams entire cap space for a season?

Seems legit.

it depends on how valuable the guys running the show (coaches) think that backfield is to what they want to do.

as long as they win games next year and going forward i don't really care how they do it or where they spend the money.

[CRA]

i agree about the depth. i just don't think that williams contract is having the effect others do. they could make moves if they wanted to.

Well I think Williams is being made the poster child for an issue (at least by me) and it really is bigger than just him.

They need to address lots of areas. Williams isnt preventing all the holes from being addressed.....it is just the most recent example of something not helping to address them.

Plus, ,a good chuck of the Williams stuff is hindsight. If Cam hadn't been legit Williams would serve a bigger need/value and be less of a luxury.

So it is what it is....now I think they have to let the back they should of kept walk if he wants comparable money. If they don't it will be another example of putting the focus on the wrong positions coupled with overpaying.

[rayzor]

agreed about the hindsight stuff.

same will be true about going forward. i think they know who they need for what they want to do. i think they are building around the strengths already present on the team and not just cam, as it should be imo.

tolbert getting brought in was just something that fell into their lap that they would have been dumb to pass on.

the only real judge as to these contracts to "luxury" players is future events and games/seasons not yet played. as i've said, i wish that they would have addressed some positions on defense better than they did, but i don't think the williams contract had anything to do with their inaction (or lack of appropriate action as seen by myself or others). i'm also willing to give rivera more rope than i did with fox the last few years he was here (going back to '07 when i really started getting pissed with him).

until i see them handicapped by their actions (which i don't think is the case right now) then i think they know what they are doing. i may not agree with all of it, but i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. rose colored glasses are on...for now.

[frash.exe]

I look for the Panthers to draft DWill's replacement next year.

If we draft a running back early next year I will have an aneurysm

[thefuzz]

agreed about the hindsight stuff.

same will be true about going forward. i think they know who they need for what they want to do. i think they are building around the strengths already present on the team and not just cam, as it should be imo.

tolbert getting brought in was just something that fell into their lap that they would have been dumb to pass on.

the only real judge as to these contracts to "luxury" players is future events and games/seasons not yet played. as i've said, i wish that they would have addressed some positions on defense better than they did, but i don't think the williams contract had anything to do with their inaction (or lack of appropriate action as seen by myself or others). i'm also willing to give rivera more rope than i did with fox the last few years he was here (going back to '07 when i really started getting pissed with him).

until i see them handicapped by their actions (which i don't think is the case right now) then i think they know what they are doing. i may not agree with all of it, but i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. rose colored glasses are on...for now.

What in the name of Jesus are you guys talking about with the hindsight stuff???????

Our D was terrible last season, we were in shootouts far too often. Do you think that we would have continued to run the ball last season when down 27 - 9?

A strong running game is a QB's friend, but a strong D is a huge friend to a young QB. Ask Big Ben.

We would not have been able to run DWill more last season like many of you talk about, it has nothing to do with that.

If Cam would have been terrible/a rookie, then we would have fallen behind that much faster. That argument makes no sense to me.

[CRA]

agreed about the hindsight stuff.

same will be true about going forward. i think they know who they need for what they want to do. i think they are building around the strengths already present on the team and not just cam, as it should be imo.

tolbert getting brought in was just something that fell into their lap that they would have been dumb to pass on.

the only real judge as to these contracts to "luxury" players is future events and games/seasons not yet played. as i've said, i wish that they would have addressed some positions on defense better than they did, but i don't think the williams contract had anything to do with their inaction (or lack of appropriate action as seen by myself or others). i'm also willing to give rivera more rope than i did with fox the last few years he was here (going back to '07 when i really started getting pissed with him).

until i see them handicapped by their actions (which i don't think is the case right now) then i think they know what they are doing. i may not agree with all of it, but i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. rose colored glasses are on...for now.

And that is one of my issues....I accept a lot of the Williams situation is hindsight being applied. I thought the way things played out was a likely possibility but Cam struggling also was one.

My issue was always that if we signed Williams and things went good (regarding Cam)....we wouldn't then need to sign Stewart and keep Williams to both featured RB deals.

So was Williams a luxury? Only with hindsight. If we sign both Williams and Stewart it will simpy be a luxury at that stage.

Going forward, we know Cam isn't going to need the MEGA crutch of 2 featured RBs to lean on. Which was an unknown when Williams was signed. What Cam needs is a defense.

[rayzor]

And that is one of my issues....I accept a lot of the Williams situation is hindsight being applied. I thought the way things played out was a likely possibility but Cam struggling also was one.

My issue was always that if we signed Williams and things went good (regarding Cam)....we wouldn't then need to sign Stewart and keep Williams to both featured RB deals.

So was Williams a luxury? Only with hindsight. If we sign both Williams and Stewart it will simpy be a luxury at that stage.

Going forward, we know Cam isn't going to need the MEGA crutch of 2 featured RBs to lean on. Which was an unknown when Williams was signed. What Cam needs is a defense.

i think they have most of that defense the team needs already here and the rest of it can be built (contractually) around william's and stewart's contracts.

also, i tend to look at that power trio of backs as overkill and something that could potentially help break the backs of opposing defenses. the running game is, as i see it, a relentless battering ram that will destroy other teams while they are trying to stop cam from throwing downfield.

i just don't think it's going to hold the team back in other areas. we'll still grow and improve and the defense will have what it needs to stop teams. much of it is just experience and leadership and health and they have that this year.

[CRA]

i think they have most of that defense the team needs already here and the rest of it can be built (contractually) around william's and stewart's contracts.

also, i tend to look at that power trio of backs as overkill and something that could potentially help break the backs of opposing defenses. the running game is, as i see it, a relentless battering ram that will destroy other teams while they are trying to stop cam from throwing downfield.

i just don't think it's going to hold the team back in other areas. we'll still grow and improve and the defense will have what it needs to stop teams. much of it is just experience and leadership and health and they have that this year.

We overall are a weak D. Weak DL and weak secondary....hoping the great LB play can make up for a lot.

I mean, we are doing a lot of wishful thinking....DE, DT, DT CB, S, S are all starting spots we are looking for real starters. We have rookies and potential and guys who haven't lived up to the billing.

Finding those players soon is important. That takes resources.

[rayzor]

i disagree with that. aside from a very few players, i like this defense against just about any offense in the league. it will be more than enough to keep us competitive.

i don't think it's as good as the 49ers or some of the other elite defenses in the league, but it doesn't have to be. if this D is healthy and with a full season and full offseason under their belts i think its good.

only way to know who is right is by this season to be played, tho. until then both of us are talking out of our slightly educated asses.

[thefuzz]

i disagree with that. aside from a very few players, i like this defense against just about any offense in the league. it will be more than enough to keep us competitive.

i don't think it's as good as the 49ers or some of the other elite defenses in the league, but it doesn't have to be. if this D is healthy and with a full season and full offseason under their belts i think its good.

only way to know who is right is by this season to be played, tho. until then both of us are talking out of our slightly educated asses.

Have you lost it?

CB other than Gamble, who is getting long in the tooth.

Anybody at the safety position.

Run stuffing DT.

Pressure DT.

Someone to compliment Johnson from the edge?

Tons of holes. The one position that we have a ton of is LB, which just so happens to be one of the least important pieces of the puzzle on D.

[rayzor]

haven't lost it. most of the pieces are there. the others will be. there are going to be other drafts to build with, you know. not all of it has to be right now. for now, though, we have a defense that will keep our leads much better than last year. it will be at least as good as it was in 2010 and probably better and it will only continue to get better.

if you are going to use last year's defense as proof that we suck i can't help you. what we have heading into this year, if everyone is healthy, is quite a bit ahead of what we had last year.

[iamhubby1]

Have you lost it?

CB other than Gamble, who is getting long in the tooth.

Anybody at the safety position.

Run stuffing DT.

Pressure DT.

Someone to compliment Johnson from the edge?

Tons of holes. The one position that we have a ton of is LB, which just so happens to be one of the least important pieces of the puzzle on D.

Other than the pressure DT, every one of those has been taken care of. Hardy is bigger and stronger, Martin is back making his presense felt, Edwards is back healthy, hellz the whole team is a year better. Add in the chance that our first 5 picks may have an impact, and I see talent behind that glimmer of hope that is this time of year.

You are so eager to argue you bring up these rather lame examples. I feel your pain, we are not progressing fast enough for you. When your team builds through the draft, and the castoff pile, it takes a few years to build a proper team.

Thankfully, we are only in year two and are talking playoffs. Quite whining and enjoy the f'ing ride.

damm kids and their I want it now attitudes. I blame the skool systums, tv, and airconditioning.

[klumme]

So without reading this thread I am guessing CRA have about half of the posts... Am I right?

[CRA]

i disagree with that. aside from a very few players, i like this defense against just about any offense in the league. it will be more than enough to keep us competitive.

i don't think it's as good as the 49ers or some of the other elite defenses in the league, but it doesn't have to be. if this D is healthy and with a full season and full offseason under their belts i think its good.

only way to know who is right is by this season to be played, tho. until then both of us are talking out of our slightly educated asses.

You like this defense?

Who do you like at DT? Our band aid DT? Who do you like starting at DE across from Johnson? How do you like across from Gamble....either S position?

You like us against any offense?

We have tons of guys we hope turn into legit starters on D for Cam. But they aren't right now....we aren't going to get lucky on all those.

We have a sick LBing corps. We are one man deep if that at every other starting spot and 2 guys start at each spot.