Here is why I think the Panthers will go 9-7 at best

[Gman was right]

My point is that we're talking about a regular season record for next year, and the only thing you can bring up is what happened in the playoffs. Regular season, we did better vs playoff teams than even the steelers.

Also, this is the 3rd time you've brought up their "harder" schedule. We are talking about their record vs playoff teams only, so it's irrelevant. Not to mention how they base the SOS rankings is flawed anyway.

It is very relevant because the steelers had the toughest schedule in the league last year just like the panthers are going to have next year. Both teams lost to the Giants but the steelers also lost to the Titans, Eagles, and colts. They are all better teams than the Vikings and falcons. Plus the steelers beat the team that crushed us in the playoffs to win the super bowl. And what do you mean the playoffs dont matter? That is the ONLY thing that matters!

[Gman was right]

If you just take history into account, it really isn't hard to see or understand how we might not fare too well next year.

It isn't just about what happened last year, but we all know the whole we haven't had back to back winning seasons before.

Also this vs the Panthers:

Buffalo leads series 3-1

Dallas leads series 7-3

Miami leads series 3-0

Minnesota leads series 5-3

Philadelphia leads series 4-2

Washington leads series 7-1

We just play some teams next year that we have historically not done well against. Doesn't mean we will go 7-9, doesn't mean we'll go 12-4, but to say next year won't be rough is more than a stretch.

Exactly! Plus the falcons lead the series 17-11 and add those games vs the Giants, Patriots, Jets, and cardinals and we're in trouble. People can say 12-4 last year all they want. If we had a schedule like this last year we likely would have gone 8-8.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Right, the Steelers had a tough schedule but still won the Super Bowl. But the Panthers '09 schedule gives them zero chance to even win 10 games.

[Fox007]

Right, the Steelers had a tough schedule but still won the Super Bowl. But the Panthers '09 schedule gives them zero chance to even win 10 games.

Yea but they have a knack for doing that little SB winning thing, and have a history of greatness and toughness that we don't.

I think we do go 10-6, but because we go 5-1 withing the division.

[Phil Dees]

So how many of the 8+ crowd has stepped up and layed the money as I suggested yesterday?

Raise your hand. :seeya:

I bet there aren't any. :sifone:

[Gman was right]

Right, the Steelers had a tough schedule but still won the Super Bowl. But the Panthers '09 schedule gives them zero chance to even win 10 games.

YES! Because the Steelers had the best defense in the NFL, plus a better overall receiving core, and one of the best QBs in the game. They were far more equiped to take on a brutal schedule like that more than the panthers are. Why are you even trying to compare the two teams when they're totally different? They play similar styles but the steelers are far more talented.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

So how many of the 8+ crowd has stepped up and layed the money as I suggested yesterday?

Raise your hand. :seeya:

I bet there aren't any. :sifone:

For overall wins, I took...

OVER: Panthers(8.5), Ravens(8.5)

UNDER: Bucs(6.5), Lions(5)

[Phil Dees]

For overall wins, I took...

OVER: Panthers(8.5), Ravens(8.5)

UNDER: Bucs(6.5), Lions(5)

There ya go ! If you're serious then congrats for stepping up to your convictions. Much better nads than posting meaningless sheite on a message board

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Well, that has nothing to do with me being a Panthers fan. If I'm risking my own $$$ I'm doing it because I think there's profit in it. For example, I took Arizona in our playoff game because I thought the +10 spread they were getting was way too high.

[Phil Dees]

Well, that has nothing to do with me being a Panthers fan. If I'm risking my own $$$ I'm doing it because I think there's profit in it. For example, I took Arizona in our playoff game because I thought the +10 spread they were getting was way too high.

I did the same. Bet with your head, and not your heart.

[panthers55]

The defensive scheme will still be the same. People think just because we hired a new DC that its going to be different all of a sudden.Meeks will be nothing more than a John Fox puppet just like the rest of the coordinators. And we still dont know if Peppers will even bother to show up. If he doesnt our average pass rush will remain average or become even worse which means our whole defense will still struggle.

First of all unless you are in the locker room or meeting rooms you have no idea how much Fox dictates the defensive or offensive meetings. All accounts I have read suggest that Fox lets the coordinators do their thing until they struggle at which point he comes in and tries to fix things. That is what any boss does in any company that is struggling and is his perfect right and obligation to do so.

By all accounts at minicamp both coordinators were running the show and Fox was not that involved.

Tell me who have you talked to or what insider information do you have to justify your point of view. Otherwise you are just passing around an old tired opinon with no fact or reason.

From what I can tell the execution will be different in that the players will play with more aggression and energy running to the ball and swarming the receiver. In addition Meeks is making the players stick to the fundamentals and is working on the basics like footwork, maintaining discipline in the zone, working on their hand techniques, etc.

It isn't the scheme that matters but how well you execute the scheme. Meeks is known for getting the most out of the players he has. With great execution it won't matter if it Meek's or Fox's scheme. What we have lacked is execution under Trgocrap. Hopefully Meeks keeps it simple as well.

[PanthersFanInGA]

And what does this have to do with this upcoming season? We have a different DC and that will change everything. But since you and others are already writing off the season why bother watching? Just wait until next March and come back. The real fans that believe in this team will still be here waiting on you.

Exactly. Why does the topic starter base his judgement off of games played last season. Every team in the NFL has had changes over this long offseason so they will most likely perform differently than last season. We still have a monster running game and have had some major changes on our defensive issues. I don't see how you can mention last seasons progress on our upcoming season.

[Gman was right]

First of all unless you are in the locker room or meeting rooms you have no idea how much Fox dictates the defensive or offensive meetings. All accounts I have read suggest that Fox lets the coordinators do their thing until they struggle at which point he comes in and tries to fix things. That is what any boss does in any company that is struggling and is his perfect right and obligation to do so.

By all accounts at minicamp both coordinators were running the show and Fox was not that involved.

Tell me who have you talked to or what insider information do you have to justify your point of view. Otherwise you are just passing around an old tired opinon with no fact or reason.

From what I can tell the execution will be different in that the players will play with more aggression and energy running to the ball and swarming the receiver. In addition Meeks is making the players stick to the fundamentals and is working on the basics like footwork, maintaining discipline in the zone, working on their hand techniques, etc.

It isn't the scheme that matters but how well you execute the scheme. Meeks is known for getting the most out of the players he has. With great execution it won't matter if it Meek's or Fox's scheme. What we have lacked is execution under Trgocrap. Hopefully Meeks keeps it simple as well.

It is a well known fact among the media and the fans that John Fox dictates what the coordinators do. There was an article about it two years about how he was over writings Davidsons play calling. He did the same thing with Mike Trgovac. Why else do you think he wanted to leave so badly?

[panthers55]

If you just take history into account, it really isn't hard to see or understand how we might not fare too well next year.

It isn't just about what happened last year, but we all know the whole we haven't had back to back winning seasons before.

Also this vs the Panthers:

Buffalo leads series 3-1

Dallas leads series 7-3

Miami leads series 3-0

Minnesota leads series 5-3

Philadelphia leads series 4-2

Washington leads series 7-1

We just play some teams next year that we have historically not done well against. Doesn't mean we will go 7-9, doesn't mean we'll go 12-4, but to say next year won't be rough is more than a stretch.

If last year's records are largely irrelevant, then historic records against teams mean even less. Look at buffalo we have played them one time under Fox and we won. The three times we lost were in 1995, 1998 and 2001. How can that be possibly relevant?

While I will agree with you that we have struggled against the NFC East, there is every reason to believe we can hold our own against them. We have played Philly and Washington close most of the time as we did in 2006. Dallas seems to have our number in BOA for whatever reason, perhaps it is our turn in their stadium. It would be sweet justice. Minnesota is great against the run so they are always tough as they match up well against us although we seem to self destruct and hand them the game after often controlling them early.

And the fish are a totally different team than the ones we have played before. Don't know what they will have this year. They are a question mark particularly with White.

In the end if we can go 4-2 against the teams you listed we should be fine. We are going to lose several games in 2009 but hopefully we win the games in which we are favored while we steal a few in which we aren't.