QB Possibilities

[Ashor]

Isn't that the very nature of a diamond in the rough?

It's worth noting that there have always been players that have ridden the bench behind veterans while seeming to be a better option. Most recently, of course, was Williams sitting behind Foster for two years.

Now, that's not to say Moore is a better option than Delhomme right now. But with the proper coaching, I would not rule out his ability to become an effective starting quarterback in the NFL.

I'd certainly take him over all of these undrafted rookies everyone is swooning over (see Graham Harrell).

First of all, DeAngelo was a first round pick if you didn't already know that. Sooner or later he was expected to start and produce. First round picks are expected to be successful at some point early in their careers, if not, they are ruled a bust. Diamonds in the rough are late round or undrafted players who take advantage of their playing time and produce. If Moore was our quarterback answer in the future, don't you think he would be a backup as opposed to a third string? Tom Brady was a fourth string his rookie year and worked up to backup behind Drew Bledsoe that same season. If Matt Moore was our future starter, he would have been our backup quarterback this season. Last year, we had to sign Vinny Testaverde to fulfill our quarterback vacancy and salvage our season. It wasn't until all the quarterbacks ahead of Moore on the depth chart got hurt that Moore finally got to start a game. If the coaching staff did think that Moore had a future as a starter, he would be backing up Delhomme instead of McCown. Next season may be different though, Moore might step up, work hard and actually become our backup but I'm saying since it hasn't happened sooner, the chances are it probably won't happen at all.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

First of all, DeAngelo was a first round pick if you didn't already know that. Sooner or later he was expected to start and produce. First round picks are expected to be successful at some point early in their careers, if not, they are ruled a bust. Diamonds in the rough are late round or undrafted players who take advantage of their playing time and produce. If Moore was our quarterback answer in the future, don't you think he would be a backup as opposed to a third string? Tom Brady was a fourth string his rookie year and worked up to backup behind Drew Bledsoe that same season. If Matt Moore was our future starter, he would have been our backup quarterback this season. Last year, we had to sign Vinny Testaverde to fulfill our quarterback vacancy and salvage our season. It wasn't until all the quarterbacks ahead of Moore on the depth chart got hurt that Moore finally got to start a game. If the coaching staff did think that Moore had a future as a starter, he would be backing up Delhomme instead of McCown. Next season may be different though, Moore might step up, work hard and actually become our backup but I'm saying since it hasn't happened sooner, the chances are it probably won't happen at all.

I never said DeAngelo was a diamond in the rough. My point was only that there are often talented players on the roster who don't get their chance right away.

While many doubt Delhomme's potential right now, he has helped to bring this franchise a lot in the past. Who thought an undrafted backup from New Orleans would lead us to the Super Bowl?

You might be right that chances are Moore will never be a starter in the NFL. I'm just saying I wouldn't rule it out.

[Mr. Scot]

Football History: You have to remember free agency hasn't always existed.

The current free agent system only started in 1993. A few years prior to that there was "Plan B" free agency which I never thought of as much more than a glorified waiver wire. Prior to that, the predominant way to change teams was via trade or outright release.

With that in mind, only the Super Bowls listed below make for a valid discussion on this topic.

Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII

Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX (drafted by the Bucs in the Supplemental draft after playing in the USFL)

Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX

Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI (drafted by the Falcons)

John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII (drafted by the Colts, never played for them)

John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII (see above)

Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV (not drafted at all)

Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV (drafted by the Bucs)

Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI /DBT

Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII (drafted by the Vikings)

Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII

Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX

Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL /DBT

Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI /DBT

Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII /DBT (like Elway, technically drafted by the Chargers but never played for them)

Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII

Also worth noting that the earliest game on this list was pre-salary cap (when the Cowboys could simply outspend everybody).

It's a fair mix, especially when you consider that two or three guys are on there more than once.

If you want to get a broader sample, you could try also taking into account the QBs of the losing opponents in these games.

[no1panther]

We have not developed the young talented QB's we have had on our team for 5 to 10 years. Jake came to us pretrained. I think the new QB's coach

was an excellent move this offseason, and he will be able to work with all

of our QB's to make them better.

[Jangler]

We have not developed the young talented QB's we have had on our team for 5 to 10 years. Jake came to us pretrained. I think the new QB's coach

was an excellent move this offseason, and he will be able to work with all

of our QB's to make them better.

Yup, the Panthers have definitely tried to fix what's ailing them. And then Peppers has tried to slow the train down, but I don't think that has worked.

Thanks Mr.Scot, for the rest of the story.

[X-Clown]

That is not what I said. You just can't read or assume to much. What I said is that Clemens is tough son of beatch, and Carolina needs someone like that. What I believe is that Delhomme is not a bad qb, andhas his toughness, but he is not a tough son of a beatch in the sense of that good ole boy attitude that he can take a lot of poo. I know I know a lot of Carolina fans feel different, and I don't disagree he plays hard and has left it hangin out there, but the dude lacks that "it" mentality. Again, Rivers is good, but his team really made him better for a bit there than he really is. Clemens is untested, but I will tell you what, his OLine has faith and he has the potential to rise. We will see. I was not saying he was the answer.

So don't put words in to my mouth, it was a comparison of certain qb's that have the "it" factor or in this case, one who could have it. Delhomme lacks it, and Moore is a pussy, you all retarded if you think he can take this team deep. Another prime example of fans out east who do not see what happens out west, then a kid has a couple good outings, and then you think he has potential to be a stud.

And to whoever wrote he has a gun, his arm is mediocre, any qb in the NFL can zip a ball here and there, but over and over, Moore can't. I am tryint to learn a little about the Panthers and appreciate all who have some analysis, but maybe listen to someone who has seen some of the Panthers for a lot longer, like I have seen Moore since high school, through college, and now some in the NFL.........he will not be anything more than o.k.

You said that Rivers doesn't have the "edge" to win it all even though he played a playoff game aweek after having surgery on a torn f#@g ACL, but said that Clemens who's done nothing so far in the NFL is "tough". You say Rivers' supporting cast makes him look better (which is a joke based upon him carrying a team with a crappy defense, a banged up LT and Gates, and average receivers to the playoffs this past year), and then spew some nonsense about Clemens having the O-line to believe in him (even though none of his coaches do, since he couldn't keep a job from Favre or keep them from drafting Sanchez to be the new future of the franchise). Like I said, grain of salt. We get that you don't like Matt Moore because he played for Oregon State and you do like Kellen Clemens since you're a giant Oregon homer, but don't try to pass off your bias as facts. And if you want "discussion" on the topic, don't bring some weak bs.

[Spike]

Moore played for 3 different colleges and was mediocre at all of them.

[double_blue]

of the qbs on our roster, jake is obv the best. moore? no way. that being said, ive always seen him as a soft player. other are alot of teams, however who would be ecstatic to have jake as their qb.

[pantherfan]

Moore played for 3 different colleges and was mediocre at all of them.

Matt only played at two colleges, UCLA and Oregon State. He did not play football at COC. It would be nice if what is written is actually true.

[Mr. Scot]

Matt only played at two colleges, UCLA and Oregon State. He did not play football at COC. It would be nice if what is written is actually true.

Don't bother with Spike. He's a troll who pretends to be a Panther fan.

[TheRealDeal]

That is not what I said. You just can't read or assume to much. What I said is that Clemens is tough son of beatch, and Carolina needs someone like that. What I believe is that Delhomme is not a bad qb, andhas his toughness, but he is not a tough son of a beatch in the sense of that good ole boy attitude that he can take a lot of poo. I know I know a lot of Carolina fans feel different, and I don't disagree he plays hard and has left it hangin out there, but the dude lacks that "it" mentality. Again, Rivers is good, but his team really made him better for a bit there than he really is. Clemens is untested, but I will tell you what, his OLine has faith and he has the potential to rise. We will see. I was not saying he was the answer.

So don't put words in to my mouth, it was a comparison of certain qb's that have the "it" factor or in this case, one who could have it. Delhomme lacks it, and Moore is a pussy, you all retarded if you think he can take this team deep. Another prime example of fans out east who do not see what happens out west, then a kid has a couple good outings, and then you think he has potential to be a stud.

And to whoever wrote he has a gun, his arm is mediocre, any qb in the NFL can zip a ball here and there, but over and over, Moore can't. I am tryint to learn a little about the Panthers and appreciate all who have some analysis, but maybe listen to someone who has seen some of the Panthers for a lot longer, like I have seen Moore since high school, through college, and now some in the NFL.........he will not be anything more than o.k.

So you watched Moore in highschool huh? And through college? And into the NFL? And still say he's not a winner? Can I ask what led you to that conclusion?

Was it the fact that he went undefeated in high school? No, ok.

Was it the fact that he made his first start in college at age 17 and won? no, ok

Was it the fact that he has been named the starter in every quarterback competition he has ever been in? No, ok.

Was it the fact he led an undermanned Oregon State team to a 10 win season? No, ok.

Was it the fact that he led his team to wins over USC, Oregon, Mizzou, and Hawaii @ Hawaii in all relatively big important games? No, ok.

Was it the fact that he came in as an undrafted rookie missing all of TC to start 3 games at the end of the year and win 2 of them (possibly should have won all 3 but refs kinda screwed us in the Dallas game)? No, ok.

Seems you have no idea what you're talking about...lets talk about his arm then

Did you read anything about him or watch him play ever? Many scouts and coaches have been quoted as saying he throws the 25 yd out across the field better than anyone they've seen?

What about the fact that Fox purposely called a timeout to put him in to throw a hail mary because he routinely throws the ball 75+ yds?

Just checkin

You might be able to find some criticisms of Moore but don't claim to have seen him play his whole career and pick those two things as your criticisms when in fact they may be his biggest assets...good talk

If you wanna know anything more or debate anymore get at me...I'll talk football with you and school you up not just talk down to you

[Ashor]

So you watched Moore in highschool huh? And through college? And into the NFL? And still say he's not a winner? Can I ask what led you to that conclusion?

Was it the fact that he went undefeated in high school? No, ok.

Was it the fact that he made his first start in college at age 17 and won? no, ok

Was it the fact that he has been named the starter in every quarterback competition he has ever been in? No, ok.

Was it the fact he led an undermanned Oregon State team to a 10 win season? No, ok.

Was it the fact that he led his team to wins over USC, Oregon, Mizzou, and Hawaii @ Hawaii in all relatively big important games? No, ok.

Was it the fact that he came in as an undrafted rookie missing all of TC to start 3 games at the end of the year and win 2 of them (possibly should have won all 3 but refs kinda screwed us in the Dallas game)? No, ok.

Seems you have no idea what you're talking about...lets talk about his arm then

Did you read anything about him or watch him play ever? Many scouts and coaches have been quoted as saying he throws the 25 yd out across the field better than anyone they've seen?

What about the fact that Fox purposely called a timeout to put him in to throw a hail mary because he routinely throws the ball 75+ yds?

Just checkin

You might be able to find some criticisms of Moore but don't claim to have seen him play his whole career and pick those two things as your criticisms when in fact they may be his biggest assets...good talk

If you wanna know anything more or debate anymore get at me...I'll talk football with you and school you up not just talk down to you

Those are all great points, not sure if they're all true or not but sound convincing enough. Given the benefit of the doubt that those are all facts, can you explain to me as to why Matt Moore isn't the backup quarterback on our roster?

[guyinchesapeake]

Here ya go Ashor all the winning QBs

DBT drafted by team

Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB I /DBT

Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB II

Joe Namath, New York Jets - SBIII /DBT

Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - SB IV /DBT

Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - SB V /DBT

Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB VI /DBT

Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VII /DBT

Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VIII

Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB IX /DBT

Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB X

Ken Stabler, Oakland Raiders - SB XI /DBT

Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB XII

Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIII

Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIV

Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - SB XV /DBT

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XVI /DBT

Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - SB XVII /DBT

Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders - SB XVIII

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XIX

Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - SB XX ?

Phil Simms, New York Giants - SB XXI /DBT

Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - SB XXII

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIII

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIV

Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV ?

Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI ?

Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVII /DBT

Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII

Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX

Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX

Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI

John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII

John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII

Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV

Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV

Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI /DBT

Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII

Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII

Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX

Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL /DBT

Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI /DBT

Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII /DBT

Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII

I put a ? by the ones I'm not sure about. And even of couple of the ones I marked DBT I'm not sure about.

But yeah I get your point, most win with the team they start with.

Not to be picky, but Len Dawson (Pittsburgh), John Unitas (Pittsburgh), Jim Plunkett (New England), Joe Theisman (Miami of NFL and Toronto of CFL), Doug Williams (Tampa Bay), Steve Young (Tampa Bay), Brett Favre (Atlanta), Kurt Warner (undrafted), Trent Dilfer (Tampa Bay), Brad Johnson (Minnesota), and Eli Manning (San Diego) were NOT drafted by the teams they won Super Bowls for listed above. I guess Manning doesn't really count given he was traded immediately, but the rest do. I guess the lesson is you can pick up a SB caliber QB thru other means than just the draft.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Here ya go Ashor all the winning QBs

DBT drafted by team

Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB I /DBT

Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB II

Joe Namath, New York Jets - SBIII /DBT

Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - SB IV /DBT

Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - SB V /DBT

Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB VI /DBT

Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VII /DBT

Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VIII

Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB IX /DBT

Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB X

Ken Stabler, Oakland Raiders - SB XI /DBT

Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB XII

Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIII

Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIV

Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - SB XV /DBT

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XVI /DBT

Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - SB XVII /DBT

Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders - SB XVIII

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XIX

Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - SB XX ?

Phil Simms, New York Giants - SB XXI /DBT

Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - SB XXII

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIII

Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIV

Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV ?

Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI ?

Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVII /DBT

Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII

Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX

Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX

Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI

John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII

John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII

Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV

Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV

Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI /DBT

Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII

Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII

Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX

Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL /DBT

Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI /DBT

Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII /DBT

Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII

I put a ? by the ones I'm not sure about. And even of couple of the ones I marked DBT I'm not sure about.

But yeah I get your point, most win with the team they start with.

=Small technicality but Unitas was drafted by the Steelers cut and signed by Weeb Eubank. Also Unitas won The World Championship in 58 and 59.

BTW He was my Hero growing up. God Bless Unitas Died 9-11-2002