Rivera expects Bell to start at right tackle (Also other Tidbits)

[panthers55]

I don't believe the idea is to count the number or plays that are affected it's to count the number of plays that a linemen lets his guy beat him. It's not science but it's a subjective look. Coaches grade every single play too and would certainly be in a subjective manner.

I understand the rationale behind it but again think that hurries are not that useful. Guys like Brees that get the ball out quickly or linemen working in a WCO will all look great while guys in a vertical passing scheme like ours will suffer from the fact that the quarterback by design will hold onto the ball much longer waiting for the play to develop. If you can see how linemen hold up for the first 3 seconds of the play you at least get a baseline for discussion.

[MaineManPanther]

Hurries are very subjective and not even an official NFL stat. Many of the hurries against all of our players were from Newton holding the ball so long. Even then when you add the extra sacks which would be hits or hurries with Newton, they were pretty close. Smith was like Bell, a rookie who made more than his share of mistakes while he learned. The question with snaps was not how many they had but how many pass attempts they were in for, A tackle that is in for 700 snaps but 250 pass attempts has the same opportunity for mistakes than a guy who is in for 500 attempts and 252 pass attempts. Do you have the pass breakouts for each so we can somewhat compare apples to apples. I do know we ran the ball more than the Cowboys and they threw more.

Either way the point was that he was substantially different when everything is factored in compared to a top 10 pick, meaning most all rookies struggle.,

I do. Tyron Smith had 620 pass attempts and a total of 30 negative plays (sacks, hits. hurries). For a average of 96 pressure per play which get him ranked eleven out of 58 players.

Bell had 465 snaps with 38 neagtive plays for a average of 93.4 which puts him 42nd out of 58.

[MaineManPanther]

I understand the rationale behind it but again think that hurries are not that useful. Guys like Brees that get the ball out quickly or linemen working in a WCO will all look great while guys in a vertical passing scheme like ours will suffer from the fact that the quarterback by design will hold onto the ball much longer waiting for the play to develop. If you can see how linemen hold up for the first 3 seconds of the play you at least get a baseline for discussion.

I believe PFF will actually be doing that time stat this year. Hurries shouldnt be taken as gospel. But with context I think they certainley help the discussion. Sacks alone display only 5 to 15 plays out of hundreds of snaps.

[CRA]

I believe PFF will actually be doing that time stat this year. Hurries shouldnt be taken as gospel. But with context I think they certainley help the discussion. Sacks alone display only 5 to 15 plays out of hundreds of snaps.

Yeah, hurries is tough....Clausen and Cam represent both ends. A QB like Clausen runs before there is real pressure which often gives an illusion and a DE pursuit.....and Cam last year often was in the pocket after a decision ideally should of been made. DE coming after the QB in both those is really on the QB....but technically our T might be getting dinged on tether stat sheet often

[CRA]

I believe PFF will actually be doing that time stat this year. Hurries shouldnt be taken as gospel. But with context I think they certainley help the discussion. Sacks alone display only 5 to 15 plays out of hundreds of snaps.

Yeah, hurries is tough....Clausen and Cam represent both ends. A QB like Clausen runs before there is real pressure which often gives an illusion and a DE pursuit.....and Cam last year often was in the pocket after a decision ideally should of been made. DE coming after the QB in both those is really on the QB....but technically our T might be getting dinged on tether stat sheet often

[Marguide]

Listening to Jets fans, one RT that was worse than Bell was Wayne Hunter. He seems to be universally loathed.

[panthers55]

I do. Tyron Smith had 620 pass attempts and a total of 30 negative plays (sacks, hits. hurries). For a average of 96 pressure per play which get him ranked eleven out of 58 players.

Bell had 465 snaps with 38 neagtive plays for a average of 93.4 which puts him 42nd out of 58.

If Dallas only attempted 582 passes attempts all season how was he in for an extra 40 plays??

And again look at real official numbers which is sacks and Smith did worse. This whole hurry business is subjective and not an NFL stat just as I discussed for pages. How many of those hurries resulted in miscues or interceptions. Otherwise they are irrelevant.

[MaineManPanther]

How do you figure someone like Trublood was worse?

Bell spent less time on the field.....yet had more sacks, penalties, etc. Maybe if you posted Bell and his info side by side it would help. Bell wasnt better....nothing supports that claim that I see

Because if you average the snaps with the amount of neagtive plays. Bell allows less pressure per play. Also to be more accurate with snaps: Bell 465 passing block snaps. Trublood 596.

If that doesnt work then:

Guy Whimper: 472 pass snaps ,14 sacks, 7 hits and 27 pressures.

Webb : 549 pass snaps, 12 sacks, six hits, 30 pressures

Marc Colombo : 542 pass snaps, nine sacks, nine hits, 35 pressures

[panthers55]

I believe PFF will actually be doing that time stat this year. Hurries shouldnt be taken as gospel. But with context I think they certainley help the discussion. Sacks alone display only 5 to 15 plays out of hundreds of snaps.

But the difference is that sacks result in loss of yardage and loss of down often on third down or obvious passing situations. Plus they sometimes result in fumbles which are the same as interceptions. Hurries could result in a negative play or the ball could be completed or in Newton's case spur him to run for the first down. Again I hear what you are saying but until they become a real stat instead of an opinion, I don't give them much credence.

[pantherclaw]

Bell is no pro bowler.

I wasn't impressed with his rookie season, but to be fair, I'd never be impressed with an UDFA rookie starting at tackle.

That being said, the coaches feel comfortable moving forward will Bell.

I'm sure he'll improve, cause the guy has heart, and a motor.

Hangman is a good lineman. he'll never be an all pro, but we don't need him to be.

With stability on the right side, Hangman's play will also improve.

We got a good oline, but it seems our fans aren't happy unless everyone is an all pro.

Completely unrealistic expectations.

[MaineManPanther]

If Dallas only attempted 582 passes attempts all season how was he in for an extra 40 plays??

And again look at real official numbers which is sacks and Smith did worse. This whole hurry business is subjective and not an NFL stat just as I discussed for pages. How many of those hurries resulted in miscues or interceptions. Otherwise they are irrelevant.

Sacks arent counted as attempts which leaves us with 609 snaps. At the top my head Im not sure what the other eleven would be. But Im sure its somthing fairly obvious, I'll figure it out.

PFF doesnt give a pressure if the QB holds for more then threes seconds. And doesnt count it unless unless it influences the QB's play on that snap. This isnt perfect but its not without objectivity. .

Sacks are finite , more integral and more game changing. But in the span of hundreds of hundreds of snaps I think they are pretty bad in comparing two players or even discussing one. And sacks can be just as subjective (qb holding on too long, running out of bounds behind the line, etc.)

Look at Bell vs. Smith.

To say one is better because of a four plays (however big they are), and discount over 400 more just doesnt seem the right way to figure it out. Alot can happen in those snaps that could display Bell or Smith as more competent

I think combining them with hits, hurries and snaps give a better broader picture.Even better is there grading which , unless your a avid fan who watches every snap and every play, is the best objectivity (IMO) your going to get.

[CRA]

If Dallas only attempted 582 passes attempts all season how was he in for an extra 40 plays??

And again look at real official numbers which is sacks and Smith did worse. This whole hurry business is subjective and not an NFL stat just as I discussed for pages. How many of those hurries resulted in miscues or interceptions. Otherwise they are irrelevant.

Well, sacks and some rushes.....can be downs for a lineman counted that doesn't register as pass attempts.

Romo had 22 rushes....some of those were passing plays

[panthers55]

Well, sacks and some rushes.....can be downs for a lineman counted that doesn't register as pass attempts.

Romo had 22 rushes....some of those were passing plays

Rushes are rushes. If a quarterback rushes the ball after holding it for 20 seconds it is a running play unless he gets tackled behind the line and then it is a sack. Passing plays are only considered a passing play when a pass is attempted. Otherwise a sack or rush is logged.

[CRA]

Rushes are rushes. If a quarterback rushes the ball after holding it for 20 seconds it is a running play unless he gets tackled behind the line and then it is a sack. Passing plays are only considered a passing play when a pass is attempted. Otherwise a sack or rush is logged.

On a passing play...a QB can be pressured and forced out of the pocket. The result of the play could be a 2 yard rush.

So yes a rush is logged.

My point was, the DE who pressured him on the pass still gets credited with the hurry.....despite the end result logging it as a rush attempt. Doesn't he? I am not certain how that plays out....that is what I was suggesting.