Panthers Switching to 3-4 Defense...

[carolinarolls]

Never. Never ever.

75% of fans think that 3-4 means to have 4 good LB's playing at the same time.

...and since this number apparently includes the media parrots as well this number will likely go up.

the number of casual fans saying "I told you so" right now has got to be off the charts.

thanks media.

again.

[panthers55]

For what it is worth, I do think we could run a 3-4 base defense with the personnel we currently have. Why?

Edwards has played NT in a 3-4 and both Johnson and now Hardy are big and strong enough to play a 2 gap scheme in a 3-4 at DE.

Hardy is athletic enough to play OLB in a 3-4 if we bring in McClain or Kearse and both Applewhite and Tucker have played OLB in a 3-4. A guy like Keiser could come in when we want an OLB to line up essentially at a DE with a hand on the ground.

Beason and Kuechly would be an outstanding duo as ILBs. The guys who would be most out of place would be Anderson and Davis.

Would that mean we would do it as a base defense?? I don't think so but we could use it more often especially on passing downs. We could also use a 3-3-5 nickel more often against teams like New Orleans or Philly that pass more often than run. We were pretty vanilla last year given the poor linebacker play but that is going to change in a big way this year.

[magnus]

For what it is worth, I do think we could run a 3-4 base defense with the personnel we currently have. Why?

Edwards has played NT in a 3-4 and both Johnson and now Hardy are big and strong enough to play a 2 gap scheme in a 3-4 at DE.

Hardy is athletic enough to play OLB in a 3-4 if we bring in McClain or Kearse and both Applewhite and Tucker have played OLB in a 3-4. A guy like Keiser could come in when we want an OLB to line up essentially at a DE with a hand on the ground.

Beason and Kuechly would be an outstanding duo as ILBs. The guys who would be most out of place would be Anderson and Davis.

Would that mean we would do it as a base defense?? I don't think so but we could use it more often especially on passing downs. We could also use a 3-3-5 nickel more often against teams like New Orleans or Philly that pass more often than run. We were pretty vanilla last year given the poor linebacker play but that is going to change in a big way this year.

pretty big misconception here and in a lot of these posts. We are a one gap team. Any 3-4 we would run, is one-gap. Our NT, whether in the 4 man or 3, is a one gap player, and we've had a nose tackle since 2002. Rivera's 3-4 was one-gap. 3-4 doesn't automatically mean two-gap, nor does NT.

[rainwater]

It's funny because every team in the NFL has a 3-4 package even if they have a base 4-3 defense. The Panthers aren't doing anything that other teams aren't doing. All it means is they may run a slightly higher % of 3-4 packages but I don't think it will be noticeable.

[panthers55]

pretty big misconception here and in a lot of these posts. We are a one gap team. Any 3-4 we would run, is one-gap. Our NT, whether in the 4 man or 3, is a one gap player, and we've had a nose tackle since 2002. Rivera's 3-4 was one-gap. 3-4 doesn't automatically mean two-gap, nor does NT.

I would agree with you to a point. We run the 4-3 under/over which is a 1 gap scheme . But with the NT playing the 0 technique lines up on the outside shoulder of the center he still has responsibility for both A gaps given the the other tackle is lined up in the 3 technique and both DEs are lines up in a 5 technique.

You make a good point in that 3-4s can be a 1 gap or 2 gap schemes but still in both, the nose tackle almost always has responsibility for both A gaps especially against the run. Against the pass the NT may try to shoot a gap but are there to stop the draw play first and pass rush second. Guys like Kemo were clearly in there as a run stopper to stuff the middle and patrol both A gaps not to split a gap and pressure the quarterback.

[CRA]

Yeah...but Edwards is a slightly undersized 34 NT who simply couldn't get it done in the 34.....which is why he is here playing in our 43.

We still don't have the DEs. Ours are 43 DEs.

Hybrid means situational looks....which we can do. We would need to invest in a new DL....our guys would get blown up playing 34 every down

[iamhubby1]

As for Edwards, he is a big man. I don't see how 6'3'' 325 is not big enough?

Like has been mentioned previously, our D is going to be a mish mash of elements from every D Rivera and McD have ever seen, ready about, or ever imagined. Some of this, a little bit of that, mix in some more of this, and voila, you have a "What the hellz am I looking at here?", type D.

We have a ton poo of guys that are Rivera type guys. Good size, athletic, smartish, and driven. We also worked to upgrade the S position, although I believe Martin will have a bounce back season. Rivera finally has a fullish tool box.

I expect us to attack early. I expect us to attack often. I expect us to attack from any and all angles. I expect us to attack from a variety of looks. I just plain and simple, expect us to attack. And that thought excites me no end.

You guys can discuss this ad nausium, (sp) but there is talent on this D. And Rivera is chomping at the bit to work his magic. If you can imagine it, Rivera was already there and gone. He has been waiting his whole career for this moment. How do you think he is going to want this to play out?

We are in for a front row seat to the future of what a D can look like when men of vision are leading the way.

[CRA]

Ron played NT in the 3-4 at about 315 in KC. He was undersized then....Carolina has him listed a tad heavier. A lot of the good 3-4 NT are playing at 330-340

[CRA]

Ron played NT in the 3-4 at about 315 in KC. He was undersized then....Carolina has him listed a tad heavier. A lot of the good 3-4 NT are playing at 330-340.

The KC community considered him slightly undersized. Remember back when we signed him? The guy we were exited about bc he fit the 43 better? Probably don't want to put an older version of that on the field with a couple of guys that aren't 34 DEs

[iamhubby1]

Trying to throw me off with multiple posts will not work. I am way to clever for that old trick.

I hear you, but Edwards is a big stout man. He is to 325 as Hardy is to 300. They both look fit. And Edwards does not need a long and productive career here. He only needs to play well and hold the fort for a year, maybe two. Both of which he is more than capable of accomplishing.

I may be nitpicking, but I just do not see a big enough difference between 325 and 330, I only know of one productive NT at above the 330 range and that is Wolfork. If big was all that mattered, everyone would put a sumo wrestler in at NT. You have to be big enough to stand your ground, stout enough to move a pile, and agile enough to get penetration. That is a lethal combination from a 6'3'' 325lb man. And not just anyone can do it. So be glad Edwards is still here. We need him, and he fits what we want.

I am sorry that we do not have quality starters at every position, yet. We are only at the beginning of year two. Temper your dissatisfaction with the knowledge the we are just now scratching the surface of what we will eventually become. And we are still good enough to be looking at the playoffs. Seems like a hell of a starting off point to me. But hey, I have been married a long time, maybe my thrill level is a little lower than it used to be?

Sorry for the rant. I am just testy about preceived flaws, when TC has just started. Folks are nervous about the past seeping into the futue. I can see that. The future is bright, let the light guide you to a serene and happy place.

[Tarheels23]

I'd prefer them to perfect the Jim Johnston 4-3 defense than to dabble in the 3-4.

[rayzor]

what's going to be funny is when we run 3-4 formations quite often in games this year and do well with it even with our current crop of talent while the "experts" in here say we just don't have the personnel for it.

we have the guys who can do it. it may not be our base, but that doesn't matter because it will be switched up a lot in games.

i expect us to be running a 3-4 30-40% of the time by the end of the year. we have the talent to do it. we have players than can pull it off. it's pretty narrow minded to think that the guys we have can't do it and do it well.

[rayzor]

I'd prefer them to perfect the Jim Johnston 4-3 defense than to dabble in the 3-4.

i prefer that they just do whatever works than stick to any 1 philosophy.

[magnus]

I would agree with you to a point. We run the 4-3 under/over which is a 1 gap scheme . But with the NT playing the 0 technique lines up on the outside shoulder of the center he still has responsibility for both A gaps given the the other tackle is lined up in the 3 technique and both DEs are lines up in a 5 technique.

You make a good point in that 3-4s can be a 1 gap or 2 gap schemes but still in both, the nose tackle almost always has responsibility for both A gaps especially against the run. Against the pass the NT may try to shoot a gap but are there to stop the draw play first and pass rush second. Guys like Kemo were clearly in there as a run stopper to stuff the middle and patrol both A gaps not to split a gap and pressure the quarterback.

No. NT does not mean two-gap. Our NTs do not control the center and flow, they have a gap like everyone else. Note that they're not head up, either.

And no, 3 tech and 5 tech are not two gap necessarily either. We are a one gap team.

As for the other posts about Edwards, he's pretty big compared to where he was coming out - 293 (and a somewhat impressive 4.83 40). But he wasn't really that explosive, so he gained weight I'm assuming to become more solid at the point of attack. He wasn't that good a fit in Crennel's two-gap 3-4 but he was solid for them in 2010.