We can cut Deangelo next year and owe him nothing, no cap hits,nothing!

[CRA]

I agree 100% with your assesment of Tolbert's Role but i think the shift will really be seen after this season. D Will did have some poor pass protect moments last season early on and I think it affected his carries. He improved toward the end of the season and finally got the offense.

I see Tolbert used more as h-back weapon in 2011 that will line up in non traditional spots on motion plays..fb screens..TE screens..great pass blocker and blocking on WR and HB screens...so the screen keys can happen on both sides when the ball is hiked (ok maybe not)

I was just saying that Williams rushing attempts should be higher this season compared to last just bc Cam may get less run attempts.

It does not mean that the team is deviating from the offense being based around Newton.

i just do not see how you can still run Cam as much as last season when he may get the richest contract in the NFL in two seasons..he will still run bc that is the major X factor in the offense but I see Chud using the threat of Cam running to bait plays this season as a counter to all the "Film Study" all DC's are doing in the NFC South...thus Williams still retaining his value to the team in 2011.

I can see Dwill's role increasing this season but anticipate a contract restructure, trade or possible release in 2012.

Tolbert and HB 3 to fill dwill's role..with Stew resigned and taking more of a feature role...65-35 (JStew-Tolbert)

Either way its going to be awesome to see this offense.....if only Williams can improve his pass catching on screens!!! Its like Fox coached him out of that ability that was a strength in college and his rookie season.

Williams also might not of taken a step back in his pass protection....he is just use to blocking in a more traditional manner.

The spread option looks are simply not something he was familiar with....a lot goes on. It is always an option run play....which is unique. So each snap he has to be prepared to take a unique handoff or then become a rec option or blocker.

Cam and Stewart both spent years doing it....and DWill was never was part of one. Which is why Stewart played the largest % of plays by any RB in the division. Cam works well out of the spread option

[Marguide]

.....Williams lack of blocking and Stewart being from Oregon's scheme being the reason

Williams also might not of taken a step back in his pass protection....he is just use to blocking in a more traditional manner.

I know you want to ignore this, but as a refresher, Stewart was named the league's worst pass blocker in 2011.

[ReadyorNot]

I know you want to ignore this, but as a refresher, Stewart was named the league's worst pass blocker in 2011.

Actually he wasn't. He was 37th worst pass-blocker, and he was in on 96 pass block snaps and allowed 12 pressures, while Deangelo was 34th ONLY in 57 pass block snaps, and allowed 5 pressures. Chud doesn't even trust d-will enough to put in on most of the pass-blocking snaps, AGAIN showing Chud prefers Stewart than D-will. http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/30/2011-pass-blocking-efficiency-running-backs/

[Marguide]

Actually he wasn't. He was 37th worst pass-blocker, and he was in on 96 pass block snaps and allowed 12 pressures, while Deangelo was 34th ONLY in 57 pass block snaps, and allowed 5 pressures. Chud doesn't even trust d-will enough to put in on most of the pass-blocking snaps, AGAIN showing Chud prefers Stewart than D-will. http://www.profootba...-running-backs/

"Panthers RB Jonathan Stewart's lack of playing time over the past few seasons has been one of the more frustrating storylines in fantasy football. Talented teammate DeAngelo Williams has plenty to do with that. But Stewart's struggles in pass protection are another issue that's held him back. Pro Football Focus gave Stewart the worst pass-blocking grade among all RBs with at least 100 chances over the past 3 seasons. J-Stew has received a negative rating all 3 years, including a career-worst mark this past season."

This is from http://wdis.net/news/nfl/jonathan-stewart-struggles-in-pass-protection

So yes, Stewart has been the worst over the last 3 years as measured by Pro Football Focus.

My point isn't that I think Stewart is as bad as he is being made out to be. Instead, I find myself in the position of defending DWill from statements that he is a much worse pass blocker. That just isn't the case.

[iamhubby1]

People tend to grasp at straws when making an arguement. Just the way things are. Stew was on the field more so he must be better. Not exactly the case as we have found out.

DWill is what folks call a home run hitter. He can take it to the house with any touch. He just may get more catches this year, I can see it.

Stewy, he is more the battering ram/bowling ball type. Still effective, but nowhere near as dangerous.

Why Not be happy having both? Come on man!

[Marguide]

People tend to grasp at straws when making an arguement. Just the way things are. Stew was on the field more so he must be better. Not exactly the case as we have found out.

DWill is what folks call a home run hitter. He can take it to the house with any touch. He just may get more catches this year, I can see it.

Stewy, he is more the battering ram/bowling ball type. Still effective, but nowhere near as dangerous.

Why Not be happy having both? Come on man!

Couldn't agree more. I love Stew's running style, I love DWill's home run threat. We should be thankful we have both.

It is understandable that some don't like DWill's contract and by extension, worry about keeping Stew. That is a valid argument. What I don't get is people dissing DWill to try to bolster their position regarding Stew. That is what I take strong exception to.

[CRA]

I know you want to ignore this, but as a refresher, Stewart was named the league's worst pass blocker in 2011.

Let me ask you a question...did he look like the leagues worst blocker? Did Blount in Tampa, who potentially is one of the worst, look like a top 10 best blocker?

When a stat doesn't match the eyeball test....it is best not to use it. The fact they rated Blount top 10 last year should tell you something.

[csx]

I know you want to ignore this, but as a refresher, Stewart was named the league's worst pass blocker in 2011.

No he wasn't. Profootball focus ranked him near the bottom but other shitty players like Darren Sproles and Lesean McCoy were below him. Deangello was just ranked slighly better than him in pass blocking so I would say they both suck in that aspect.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to watch game footage and see who is the better of the 2 in pass protection.

if you see anything other than the obvious...then you're obviously lying to yourself.

since game one, it's been obvious who the coaching staff is more comfortable with when the game is on the line.

[Mr. Scot]

I think the kids call it Peerless Price Pox or Javon Walker Pneumonia.

I'd call Harper more historically relevant since his move happened back when unrestricted free agency as we know it now was still fairly new.

All of which is a veiled way of saying that I'm kinda old :unsure:

[iamhubby1]

Couldn't agree more. I love Stew's running style, I love DWill's home run threat. We should be thankful we have both.

It is understandable that some don't like DWill's contract and by extension, worry about keeping Stew. That is a valid argument. What I don't get is people dissing DWill to try to bolster their position regarding Stew. That is what I take strong exception to.

Stewy is a beast that is for sure. And he is capable of breaking off some good runs. I just don't see him as a homerun threat. They really are two different type backs that compliment each other very well. Too bad that is not enough for some folks.

Fans have a need to categorize and pigeon hole players. Who is better, who should be playing, who got too much money, etc. It is a way to play the we are better than you game. Or in our case, the we have some really good players but are not yet on your level game.

Until DWill shows a significant drop in production, I will consider him the more explosive back. Nothing against Stewy and that outrageous stiff-arm. Just the way I see it.

[Marguide]

You know what? With further analysis, the OP was right. We could cut DWill after this season.

Look at it this way...We could cut him once the 2013 league year starts and call it a June 1 cut, just like we did with Wharton. The bonus acceleration would cause $4.8 million to hit the books in 2013, and the same in 2014. But the salary that would be avoided amounts to $4,750,000 in 2013, and an even greater $5,750,000 in 2014.

So it would be a negative impact of only $50,000 next year (nothing) and a positive impact of $950,000 in 2014.

Granted, you would have to replace the roster spot, and that would carry an impact, but that is sorta besides the point for this discussion.

Anyone see any fallacy in this analysis?

[iamhubby1]

You know what? With further analysis, the OP was right. We could cut DWill after this season.

Look at it this way...We could cut him once the 2013 league year starts and call it a June 1 cut, just like we did with Wharton. The bonus acceleration would cause $4.8 million to hit the books in 2013, and the same in 2014. But the salary that would be avoided amounts to $4,750,000 in 2013, and an even greater $5,750,000 in 2014.

So it would be a negative impact of only $50,000 next year (nothing) and a positive impact of $950,000 in 2014.

Granted, you would have to replace the roster spot, and that would carry an impact, but that is sorta besides the point for this discussion.

Anyone see any fallacy in this analysis?

Are you hoping DWill signs a vet minimum contract? If so, you may be in for some dissappointment. Or a draft pick? Or a FA? Someone has to take that spot.

Or as some have suggested, just grab a guy and plug him in. So in that case it would be a cheap option.

But to actually answer the question. It seems to be a possible solution. Although I am not a cap, or contract, expert. And I in no way would endorse this course of action. But, it looks feasable. I now dislike you for even suggesting this.

[Marguide]

Are you hoping DWill signs a vet minimum contract? If so, you may be in for some dissappointment. Or a draft pick? Or a FA? Someone has to take that spot.

Or as some have suggested, just grab a guy and plug him in. So in that case it would be a cheap option.

But to actually answer the question. It seems to be a possible solution. Although I am not a cap, or contract, expert. And I in no way would endorse this course of action. But, it looks feasable. I now dislike you for even suggesting this.

No, I am not rooting for this. It's just an exercise in cap management.

But at least we know we could do it if we had to.