Fox/Hurney's Tenure for the Panthers

[bleys]

I've been thinking on the issue of Fox and the fans. How there are two sides who either like or dislike him. And with that, I look at the positives he has had throughout his career as our HC and also, I see the negatives. I'm giving you a little prelude to my theory that deals with Fox's tenure as a Panther coach (Hurney included as GM) to see if it makes any sense...

Being on the Huddle and being a huge Panther fan, what I think we’ve been watching is how Hurney and Fox seem to have had their growing pains at their positions with the team. They both have learned over the years together and I really feel they have their best years ahead.

They both came into their positions for the first time with our team and have gone through growing pains as they face issues at their positions... With the way they seem content with their roster between '06 - '07 to be changing in their ways (becoming more aggressive- in the draft in particular) and trying to grow as they figure out a method that works best..

Fox came in as a HC and turned the franchise around to go 7-9. Obviously, a good coach. Especially to go to the Superbowl the year after. However, '04 we were decimated with injuries. Okay, go for depth. In '05, we had a great defense and a decent offense carried by Smitty and Jake. However, the injury bug hit us with our RB and as we got deeper in the playoffs, our lack of a #2 helped us hit a brick wall in the playoffs.

So Fox has a few years under his belt... But just like us all, we are always learning, and again, he only has a few years under his belt as a HC.

'06 and '07 happen, and I think looking back, we can chalk that up to the growing pains I mentioned. Trying to figure out how to change/adapt and make things happen to win. But without making too drastic of changes, because the negatives could be horrible. For instance, they were far too stubborn in finding a #2 receiver in those years. Also, it took 2 losing seasons before we retooled our OLine. I think perhaps there might have been a hot seat coming into the '08 year, so they pulled out all the stops.. By then they have a new scouting dept. We have a great draft, and they get more aggressive and make moves to get what they want. It pays off.

We saw success, but our defense was suffering after we put a great offense on the field. Changes to adapt came by unloading the defensive coaches and bringing in new ones. We saw in the draft this year, more aggression (and hopefully our scouting dept makes a huge difference again with solid picks in the later rounds.)

With this all going on, I have a feeling Fox/Hurney are growing in their positions and finding new ways to be successful. Our draft has stepped up in a big way in the last 2 years and now with Meeks focusing on fundamentals, I hope we start seeing our backups or starters get replaced by our own players. Reports from minicamp seem to show Davidson adapting to Meeks’ idea of technique as well as our new QB coach. And we are seeing this evidence this year.

Granted, we can talk about play calling. We can talk about Pep. We can talk about all the bullpoo we think they should be doing. However, in the end, I think we'll see they haven't plateaued... They have become better.

All of this is just off the top of my head and hopefully it makes sense. I just have a feeling after the next 5 years when we look back on that time, we'll see more success than we expected.

I'm looking forward to the best Panther football we've seen....

[PhillyB]

Nice analysis. I think the 08 season was absolutely a sign that we've turned a corner, and the draft/hiring of Meeks shows a definite effort to repair the problems of last year. Keep last year's offense and improve the defense and the Panthers fans have another fun year to look forward to

[rayzor]

he [fox] needs to show if he can get the team to have 2 winning seasons in a row. he needs to show that he can get us into the playoffs 2 years in a row and he needs to show that he can get us not to be a one and done in them.

his contract runs out after this next season. i don't see them doing anything with it as far as extensions until after the season or at least towards the end of the season. if he can't accomplish getting us to go deep into the playoffs (and i am setting the bar at the NFC championship game) we need to go another direction.

if we don't have a winning season and we follow that old tired trend of following a good solid winning season with a mediocre at best season...there is no question he needs to go.

the way it's sounding, we may have his successor on the team already.

i have really good feelings about this coming year but if it's a bad one...something big needs to happen. fox won't be fired, he just won't be given another contract.

[dexterpyro]

Great post...I agree with that we havent seen the best Panthers football yet.

Ver nice anylisis bleys

[PhillyB]

if we don't have a winning season and we follow that old tired trend of following a good solid winning season with a mediocre at best season...there is no question he needs to go.

this is why fans are fans and coaches are coaches

[bleys]

Nice analysis. I think the 08 season was absolutely a sign that we've turned a corner, and the draft/hiring of Meeks shows a definite effort to repair the problems of last year. Keep last year's offense and improve the defense and the Panthers fans have another fun year to look forward to

Thanks, but I'm no writer. lol I think we'll see if we've turned the corner this year. However, last year will have been the year they changed their ways and stepped up their game.

he [fox] needs to show if he can get the team to have 2 winning seasons in a row. he needs to show that he can get us into the playoffs 2 years in a row and he needs to show that he can get us not to be a one and done in them.

his contract runs out after this next season. i don't see them doing anything with it as far as extensions until after the season or at least towards the end of the season. if he can't accomplish getting us to go deep into the playoffs (and i am setting the bar at the NFC championship game) we need to go another direction.

if we don't have a winning season and we follow that old tired trend of following a good solid winning season with a mediocre at best season...there is no question he needs to go.

the way it's sounding, we may have his successor on the team already.

i have really good feelings about this coming year but if it's a bad one...something big needs to happen. fox won't be fired, he just won't be given another contract.

I definitely agree with your expectations. We have a lot of talent and what I was explaining falls in here: Is Fox growing or going? I hope growing and what we've seen in the last 2 years shows they have expanded outside of their usual ways.

We have seen 2 drafts in a row with the same aggression. Last year it proved to be a great move. This year, will it as well? I fully expect another winning season, but we will see how far it goes... (hopefully no injuries play a roll in this)

[rayzor]

this is why fans are fans and coaches are coaches

i am a pragmatic business man. you set your contracts up with anticipations that certain benchmarks will be met. you have a goal in mind and you allow in your contracts enough reasonable time to accomplish those goals. if you think they are close and near the end of the contract, you extend it. if they haven't reached those goals and they you have provided them with the tools they said they needed to accomplish it then something is wrong. you have to set a limit on how much time and money you will invest in someone. if they aren't getting the results, replace them with someone that can.

you shouldn't beat a dead horse and you shouldn't keep paying someone who can't seem to get the job done. the job is building a consistently winning team that is a legit superbowl contender. 8 years is plenty of time to see what he can do. this is the last chance.

[skarbar001]

Great post! I just hope at some point Fox and Hurney decide to work on the QB situation. I'm far from a Jake hater, I actually truly like the guy but he's not getting any younger. Bringing in or drafting a younger QB is paramount to the long term success of this franchise. Fox and Hurney's high risk, high reward drafts have worked out so well for our defense and offense that at this point we can start drafting guys for depth. I think after they decided to quit over complicating things and going back to the basics, is the best move they've made.

[dexterpyro]

I beleive we have turned the corner but agree...If he(foxxy) Can not get it done this year...then it is time to move on....Wonder if that is why they brough meeks in....he has had some HC rumblings before...Just my opinion i know or speculate nothing.

We have a new QB coach that can mold and Coach QB's now....should be in to a good and ineresting year....

[Jackofalltrades]

In '06 we were second the the league for games missed due to injuries, so iwouldnt write that off as "growing pains".

In 07 we lost our QB, again, not sure that qualifies as growing pains.

Every year Fox has had a healthy team he's got to the playoffs outside of his first season.

Im happy with Fox and Hurney.

[Jackofalltrades]

In '06 we were second the the league for games missed due to injuries, so iwouldnt write that off as "growing pains".

In 07 we lost our QB, again, not sure that qualifies as growing pains.

Every year Fox has had a healthy team he's got to the playoffs outside of his first season.

Im happy with Fox and Hurney.

[bleys]

In '06 we were second the the league for games missed due to injuries, so iwouldnt write that off as "growing pains".

In 07 we lost our QB, again, not sure that qualifies as growing pains.

Every year Fox has had a healthy team he's got to the playoffs outside of his first season.

Im happy with Fox and Hurney.

I agree with you, as he has made the playoffs every year we haven't had a pooload of injuries.. But I think one argument that could be made is how Fox sticks with injury prone players far too long.

Of those players injured in '06, how many were expected that year to be injured anyhow?

Of those that come to mind:

Morgan

Seidman

Shaun Williams

Foster

Colin Branch

Damione Lewis (Not so much now, although when he came to our team, was the knock against him)

Hartwig (not injury prone, but not the same after the injury, still started in '07)

who all quickly adds to that list and have been injury prone throughout their career. And I don't have all these stats in front of me, but add another 5 injuries to that list and you have a team decimated more than most other teams.

With those guys out, you're only asking for a turnstile at those positions due to the injuries that occur over the course of a season anyhow.

Like I said, I agree that he makes playoffs when there aren't an assload of injuries.. But you may also make the point that he brings in oft-injured players as backups or starters and then we are curious why there are so many injuries.

Granted, '07 is going to mess anyone up. Rarely is there a small drop off from a team's backup QB. I think we have that in Moore. But it wasn't until the last 3 games that he played. (who knows if he would have been as good if brought in earlier).

[hairybeanbag]

most of all the fan base needs to get behind out staff and stay there. jerr wants to sell tickets so he cant have a pissed off fan base. we as fan need to mature as well. we need to become stable. we need to show up to games and be loud. i think our fan base gives up at the first hint of hard times. just like fox and hurney we are new to this.

[DelhommesTheMan]

I'll tell you what, i attended my first Panther home game in Charlotte last year. It was long awaited and it certainly didnt dissapoint! It was the Monday night game againts Tampa, and i have to say, for as much poo as some people talk about our fanbase, i have never EVER attended a game where everbody in teh stadium was STANDING the whole entire time. I didnt sit down at all the entire game..It was without a doubt the most exciting game ive ever been too. Ive been to Giants Stadium to see the Giants so many times, including 4 last year against Cowboys, Eagles, and SKins, and Panthers and not one of those games were the fans standing the whole time, let alone one quarter.

So as new as Carolina fans may be, and i know standing the whole time is not the norm or too be expected every game, i think they are turning the corner, because it fired the team up on the field in a HUGE game..Especially Deangelo who was a MONSTER!