Jake gunslinger or game manger

[carpanfan96]

Why would that matter to them? Stats don't matter, winning percentages don't matter, facts don't matter.

They have told all of us, all of those things just get in the way of the truth which is that Jake sucks no matter what. Don't try to cloud the issue with reality, they know the truth. They saw it on TV with their own eyes.

lol, true they did see it on TV didn't they.

Did they know about him being shutdown the week before the Arizona game? Or that his elbow was locked up on game day and they couldn't get it loose before the game?

They must have seen the bad play calling on our coaches part, right?

They must realize how stupid it is to abandon what got you to the game and rely on a guy with a locked up elbow to win the game?

Since they saw that on TV, they must know that.

What about those 18 game winning or tying fourth quarter drives that he has, or the four of them he had last season. They saw that on TV, so they must know about those too.

Isn't TV great?

[Nu Guns]

Actually, yes it is.

I can watch every NFL game each week-kudos direct tv.

Reality check >>you and your band of brothers are about the only 12 people who think Jake is God's gift (behind panther55 of course)

You ignore what we say everytime....Jake is not the worst QB in the league.

We want a better QB.

We want to be grooming a replacement...we arent doing that. THATS IT!

You talk about Jake as if he is Peyton, and if we dont agree that his stats mirror the greatness of an eleite QB..we are morons.

"Step down to our level" talk about wine and cheese

[QuasiYoda]

"The Facts? Don't bother me with Facts!" That quote seems to resemble some people around here LOL

Reality check >>you and your band of brothers are about the only 12 people who think Jake is God's gift (behind panther55 of course)

Wow, talk about living in an ivory tower. 12 People? Jake Delhomme has many passionate fans. Likely I could provide a myriad of statistics to support that but such realities hold no sway for those whose reality is limited by some arbitrary decision based on a limited data set and by their lack of reality based experience.

We want to be grooming a replacement...we arent doing that. THATS IT!

You talk about Jake as if he is Peyton, and if we dont agree that his stats mirror the greatness of an eleite QB..we are morons.

We have 2 good back up Quarterbacks we are grooming Them. Until they have the reins of this team we don't really know what we have. Fox and Hurney think they are solid. From what I have seen they have good reason to think so. I can be totally certain if we had Matt Cassell (Who rode the bench at USC for his college career) as one of our back ups before his season last year, you would have looked at him as lower than Moore. LOL

No one here has been saying Jake has Peyton Manning's skill set but I am saying he is the spiritual leader of this team. When he first took the field as a Panther the change in the offense was immediate and powerful. Come from behind win and since then he has built on that legacy. The year he was injured was a team stumbling about in darkness. Jake is the leader, the lynchpin, the key that makes so many things work for the Panthers. Replacing him will be a gamble and will likely take time to get it right.

One thing that people who deal with Reality on a consistent basis learn is "If it isn't broken don't fix it." often turns out to be the wise course. Last season we were 12 and 4 with first round bye into the playoffs. To me that is working. To make the changes you guys are talking about at this point would be a Set Back to the organization. You guys don't know what you are talking about . . .

In 1997 the Broncos with their powerful running game led by Terrell Davis went 13-3 had a 1st round bye in the playoffs. I was at that playoff game the Jaguars vs Broncos. The Broncos lost a game they should have won, then the Jaguars lost to New England who lost to Green Bay in the Super Bowl. Green Bay beat Carolina to get to the Super Bowl by the way. Broncos OWNED New England at that time with an 11 and 0 record all time so it was sickening to see the Jags go and lose to New England who lost to Green Bay. SO WHAT . . . Well the Broncos licked their wounds, polished the team that got them to 13 and 3 and then beat Green Bay in the Super Bowl the next year and Atlanta the year after that.

Well I was at the Panthers loss to Arizona this year and I took some sustenance from that bit of history I witnessed while living in Boulder CO. Broncos lose 1st round after they earned the bye then went on to win 2 Super Bowls in a row. They used that Frustrating, Embarassing Playoff Loss as a powerful motivator with their Veteran leadership pressing for excellence and supreme effort from everyone and it paid off. Panthers are doing Exactly what they should be doing after a 12-4 season polishing their team NOT major surgery. They brought in new coaches who are working on the fundamentals, emphasizing technique and holding every player to a higher standard of excellence. Rock On!

Jake's our man until we don't make the playoffs or a quality quarterback is within our reach during trade or draft transitions. We are not going to break our backs to get a maybe when we have a solid quarter back who has shown exceptional ability when it counts . . . the playoffs and of course getting to the playoffs.

Admittedly, the Arizona game was horrible but aside from that he has been sterling in the playoffs . . . like he and the team had another gear for the playoffs. That Super Bowl was excellent showing on his part. As was his performances 2 years later when we blanked the NY Giants and Beat Chicago in a hard fought playoff battle. Face it the Delhomme Panthers have a higher octave of performance in the playoffs. One playoff loss does not erase that record nor that experience. Unless you're a bonehead.

[panthers55]

Actually, yes it is.

I can watch every NFL game each week-kudos direct tv.

Reality check >>you and your band of brothers are about the only 12 people who think Jake is God's gift (behind panther55 of course)

You ignore what we say everytime....Jake is not the worst QB in the league.

We want a better QB.

We want to be grooming a replacement...we arent doing that. THATS IT!

You talk about Jake as if he is Peyton, and if we dont agree that his stats mirror the greatness of an eleite QB..we are morons.

"Step down to our level" talk about wine and cheese

And you ignore what most all of us say. Jake is not great, nor is he our long term answer. We have been grooming Moore for the past several years. With us only keeping 3 quarterbacks and needing to have a starter and backup veteran like McCown, we can't exactly try and groom 3 or 4 guys. if you stash them on the practice squad and they are any good they get taken like we did with Moore.

Right now Jake is our best option and until we have a better one, he will be the starter.

I and most others talk about Jake realistically. We only bring out stats and numbers to combat the collective virulence of those who attack him relentlessly without any facts or evidence to back up their accusations other than a terrible playoff game.

How about elevating your conversation above the level of a wino.

[carolinarolls]

panthers55 has once again solidified his position as the biggest a55hole on this board looking down his nose at everyone else. 55 obviously takes serious pride in making himself feel superior to other posters on a message board.

55 is a joke

jake is a gunslinger

jake takes risks e does not have to

jake is not the ideal QB for what Fox is trying to accomplish

[QuasiYoda]

panthers55 has once again solidified his position as the biggest a55hole on this board looking down his nose at everyone else. 55 obviously takes serious pride in making himself feel superior to other posters on a message board.

55 is a joke

Old Chinese saying "He who throws the first punch has lost the argument"

Obviously carolinarolls & to a lesser extent Nu Guns have lost this argument because all they do now is attack the posters on this thread rather than offering effective rebuttal of cases being made. In their defense it is tough to debate opponents who have the success of Jake Delhomme to back their Arguments. While they have one bad playoff loss coupled with a childish petulant desire to have someone "Better" with out realizing the danger of reaching for as elusive as a "Franchise Quarterback". So often you get a hand full of thorns.

Good News is the Coach and Staff are on Our Side

[panthers55]

Old Chinese saying "He who throws the first punch has lost the argument"

Obviously carolinarolls & to a lesser extent Nu Guns have lost this argument because all they do now is attack the posters on this thread rather than offering effective rebuttal of cases being made. In their defense it is tough to debate opponents who have the success of Jake Delhomme to back their Arguments. While they have one bad playoff loss coupled with a childish petulant desire to have someone "Better" with out realizing the danger of reaching for as elusive as a "Franchise Quarterback". So often you get a hand full of thorns.

Good News is the Coach and Staff are on Our Side

That has been my point for some time. Detractors and constant critics like Crolls and NuGuns rarely if ever offer any solutions or insight into an issue. Instead they take the tact of criticizing the team, the front office, and the players and then the posters like you and I who try to discuss the issues rather than resort to personal attacks. I welcome reasoned discussion with relies on facts, information or even opinion as long as it can be backed up by some sort of proof or evidence.

It is a shame that we no longer have the rep system. It largely encouraged people to be civil to one another and treat each other with some modicum of respect. Since the new board has begun it has been filled with trolls, posters attacking one another rather than discussing issues, and has IMO degraded the quality of the discussion and the willingness of people to even take on posters like Crolls who routinely attack others when they have nothing else they can say. Frankly I know of at least half a dozen posters, who were very well respected here, who have moved onto other boards which are better regulated and don't allow the abuse that seems to be almost encouraged here in the name of minimizing censorship.

Watch the reaction to this post and judge for yourself.

[carpanfan96]

Actually, yes it is.

I can watch every NFL game each week-kudos direct tv.

Reality check >>you and your band of brothers are about the only 12 people who think Jake is God's gift (behind panther55 of course)

You ignore what we say everytime....Jake is not the worst QB in the league.

We want a better QB.

We want to be grooming a replacement...we arent doing that. THATS IT!

You talk about Jake as if he is Peyton, and if we dont agree that his stats mirror the greatness of an eleite QB..we are morons.

"Step down to our level" talk about wine and cheese

I didn't ignore anything, you said you knew Jake Delhomme and I asked a series of Questions and all you could do was make an attack and offer no rebuttal at all. The only thing you responded to in my post was I said Isn't Tv great.

It's also a known fact that TMJ is a two year injury for full recovery, so he did pretty damn good last year considering he didn't have his arm completely back from the surgery.

You = fail. I'm sorry, I like to have discussions and I'm open to being proved wrong. I've done said that Jake has problems and he doesn't fit the offensive system here. He fits the team and is the leader of the team and is a good QB, otherwise he wouldn't have had the job for as long as he's had. Not many team's have a Better QB then us when you count everything about jake. His intangibles and leadership, his arm and accuracy aren't as bad as people say (before he blew his arm out he had three straight years of above 60 percent Completion percentage, and had a QB rating in 88 range for those three years.

Not possible for a Qb to have those kind of Ratings for three years straight and be a bad QB. Name an QB option that we had a chance to pick up that's better then Delhomme, Moore or McCown. You can't Say Cutler, we didn't have the picks to get it done. You can't say Cassel because he's a system QB and they had to change the complete offense of NE for him to play effectively. So Name one QB that we had a chance at that's better then Delhomme?

There's only a short list of "Franchise QBs" in the League.

You have Payton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Rothelisberger, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady. Depending on the year and the system he's playing in you can also count Kurt Warner in this Category as well. These are in no particular order.

Then you have a group of Second Tier of QB's in the league.

Cutler, Eli Manning, Hasselback, Carson Palmer, Delhomme, Pennington and Romo (would be in the top part if not for his ability to lose big games no matter what.) Maybe just Maybe you could add Marc Bulger to this if he gets his act back together or the team improves.

Then you have a group of Up and comers who won't fit in one of those category's for a couple more years. They could end up in either one of those groups or fall to the bottom.

Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, David Garrard. Maybe Russel From Oakland. These guys are in this group because we don't know what they will end up becoming in the league. They could turn out to be excellent QB's or they could turn out to be duds.

The rest of the QB's in the NFL are sub-par and are just filler for there Team.

Start actually posting intelligent responses instead of attacking people and maybe you'll get somewhere in these repeated Jake Delhomme thread's. No one that I've seen has said Jake Delhomme is the Best QB and deserves to be in the same league as Payton and Brees.

Quick question for you though.

Name Three Starting NFL QB's who have more game tying or game winning forth quarter drives then Jake Delhomme.

[SMACKDAB]

I love game mangers. They make me feel all warm, and snug, and cuddly........besides, it's the best place to watch the game.

*sigh*

[frash.exe]

awesome, more parallels between the Denver Broncos of 10-11 years ago to the Panthers of today.

...no I think it's totally relevant.

[carolinanimal]

why does everyone think that Jake is the only qb that we have that will ever be good? everytime some one says they would like a better qb his bodyguards come out. is it not okay to eventually want a upgrade at the position or a at least consistency at the position? I have no problem saying that he is a average qb. i am totally fine with him. but to act like he is the elite panthers qb is crazy.

[mantal]

why does everyone think that Jake is the only qb that we have that will ever be good? everytime some one says they would like a better qb his bodyguards come out. is it not okay to eventually want a upgrade at the position or a at least consistency at the position? I have no problem saying that he is a average qb. i am totally fine with him. but to act like he is the elite panthers qb is crazy.

I don't think there is a poster on here that doesn't realize, and admitted, that it's beyond time to find a replacement for him. Some think it might be McCown, some think Moore, some think we need to draft him. But pretty much everybody thinks its time to look. Trouble is other than I described, there is not a viable option, yes, that has to be taken into consideration...

[Urrymonster]

jake is not the ideal QB for what Fox is trying to accomplish

Not sure this statement is true at all. Fox uses the passing game as the big play factor. It forces the opposing defense to play honest and not stack the box. Delhomme had one of the higher ypa and ypc and a heck of a lot of completions over 20 and 40 yards, simply because our play calling does not ask for many shorter routes. The shorter passes we do are to get Smith in some space.

Fox does NOT require a game manager. Being essentially a power running team we HAVE to use the passing game as a big play factor. How many times in all of John Fox history, have you seen us methodically march down the field with the passing game? Rarely. He uses the running game to keep the clock ticking and picking up the first downs. He uses the passing game as the TD maker or the big play threat. How would a game manager fit that kind of philosophy?!

[panthers55]

Not sure this statement is true at all. Fox uses the passing game as the big play factor. It forces the opposing defense to play honest and not stack the box. Delhomme had one of the higher ypa and ypc and a heck of a lot of completions over 20 and 40 yards, simply because our play calling does not ask for many shorter routes. The shorter passes we do are to get Smith in some space.

Fox does NOT require a game manager. Being essentially a power running team we HAVE to use the passing game as a big play factor. How many times in all of John Fox history, have you seen us methodically march down the field with the passing game? Rarely. He uses the running game to keep the clock ticking and picking up the first downs. He uses the passing game as the TD maker or the big play threat. How would a game manager fit that kind of philosophy?!

You make a good point. The object of our offense is to find mismatches and spread the field. We do a lot of playaction to draw the linebackers and safeties into the box with the idea of throwing to the seams, the crossing routes and the skinny posts for example. If we dump the ball off all the time it would play into the hands of the defense who are already trying to load the box to stop the run. We are likely to use Jake to throw downfield and try to get someone cheating or find the man in single coverage.

As for methodically marching down the field, actually we do that but it often in the last 2 minutes of the half or in the fourth quarter when we need to score. Jake is actually money when he plays in the shotgun and audibalizes calls on the line. His completion rate is in the mid 60s and his first down percentage is over 40%. The only other time we come out throwing is when we use the pass early to set up the run later on.

Just sayin........