Jake gunslinger or game manger

[panthers55]

If you want to talk about Jake's competitive nature and desire to win the game, he is definitely more of a gunslinger than a game manager. He will take risks and try to win the game. Frankly he does it more often than not as judged by his high winning percentage.

But those who think he takes unnecessary risks and just chunks the ball willy nilly without a plan are the ones without a clue.

Look at what Jake said about his pass to Smith against Green Bay last year. As I remember it, Smitty was his third read and not where the pass was first intended. He threw it to Smith because of the defensive alignment he knew that Smith would only have single coverage so he felt that he could get the ball to him and let Smitty fight for it.

As for the numbers- they tend to support what Ragin Bull alluded to.

In the first quarter for example Jake is more conservative, throws the shorter pass and doesn't take chances. His completion percentage is 58.3% and his YPA is 7.1 and his first down percentage was 32%. In the second quarter his completion percentage is 58.8 his YPA is 7.5 and his first down percentage is 33.6%. In the fourth quarter his completion percentage is 64.6%, his YPA is 8.0 and his first down percentage is 43.3%.

Interestingly when he is more pressured to make good throws and get us back in the game his numbers improve. In the first half his numbers are 58.5% completions, a 7.8 YPA and a first down percentage of 32.9%. In the last 2 minutes of the half his completion percentage is 63.3% his YPA is 6.8 and his first down percentage was 36.7%. In the second half his completion percentage is 59.2% his YPA is 8.3 and his first down percentage is 40.4%. In the fourth quarter his percentage completion is 64.6% his YPA was 8.0 and his first down completion was 43.4%. Doesn't seem throwing the long ball late in the game hurts his accuracy or success.

Now to address folks who say yeah but he takes unnecessary risks and tosses the ball up for grabs and throws interceptions all the time.

Including the regular season and playoff loss in 2008 shows the following:

When we are behind he threw 7 TDs and 9 Ints. When we were ahead he threw 7 TDs and 8 Ints. In the first half he threw 6 TDS and 7 Ints. In the second half it was 10 Tds and 10 Ints. (These numbers included both the regular season and the playoff loss to Arizona)

When we were tied he threw 2 TDs and 0 Ints and his completion percentage went up to 68.6%. When we behind by 9-16 points his completion percentage was 62.3% and he threw 4 TDs and 3 Ints. When we were ahead his completion percentage was never above 56% and he threw more Ints than TDs.

What I gather from the numbers is that he is better when the pressure is on and as the game continues. He is better when we are way behind or tied and he feels a need to try and win the game.

Seems I would rather have him as a gunslinger than a game manager. He is more effective and excels when the game is on the line. Efforts to make him a game manager may actually backfire. He thrives on pressure and it brings out his best. When the play calling is conservative it may hurt him more than it helps him.

[carolinarolls]

If you want to talk about Jake's competitive nature and desire to win the game, he is definitely more of a gunslinger than a game manager. He will take risks and try to win the game. Frankly he does it more often than not as judged by his high winning percentage.

But those who think he takes unnecessary risks and just chunks the ball willy nilly without a plan are the ones without a clue.

...blah blah blah...

Seems I would rather have him as a gunslinger than a game manager. He is more effective and excels when the game is on the line. Efforts to make him a game manager may actually backfire. He thrives on pressure and it brings out his best. When the play calling is conservative it may hurt him more than it helps him.

Anybody who wants a gunslinger over a game manager in defensive-minded team whose plan is to rely heavily on the run is somebody without a clue and somebody who will most likely beat the rest of us down at every turn with irrelevant stats and a selective segmentation of favorable scenarios to support their ridiculous ideas.

[Snake]

Quarters 1-3: Game manager

Quarter 4: Gunslinger

Game where the defense completely f*cks up and the offense needs to score points: Gunslinger.

These games I fear the most. Cause its a 50/50 chance that we win. The SD game and the NYG game Jake was a gunslinger with success. No we didnt win the NYG game but he didnt cause that. In the AZ game same story but he had a bad day. IMO if the Defense would have slowed AZ down in that game the coaches would have not felt the pressure to score on every Pos.

[carolinarolls]

where RB is wrong is that you cannot be both or one and then the other based on quarters.

You are what you are. Yo may try to be different but when it counts and the game is in your hands, your natural instincts cannot be denied. What Bull is talking about is a gameplan or what it looks like sometimes. When you label a QB however its about what his natural approach to solving the problem is. You have to rule out what he is forced to do. Is the guy a natural manager playing technique and using his superior talent or is the guy a wild as hell competitor who does not know the meaning of risk mitigation or the proper way to make a decision and is always looking for the homerun?

Jake is a homerun guy. You put it in his hands you are taking a huge chance every time.

[mantal]

These games I fear the most. Cause its a 50/50 chance that we win. The SD game and the NYG game Jake was a gunslinger with success. No we didnt win the NYG game but he didnt cause that. In the AZ game same story but he had a bad day. IMO if the Defense would have slowed AZ down in that game the coaches would have not felt the pressure to score on every Pos.

I put the Arizona game on the coaches more than on Jake. I'm also kinda thinking that behind the scenes, that might have had something to do with the coaching mass exodus. Yeah, I know he turned the ball over a lot. But we blew down that field running the ball the first drive like the defense was running thru molasses and we were running thru a vacuum. Then we suddenly abandoned the run almost completely? There's something there I'm just not privy to...

[Jase]

Jake's the best of both worlds. A gameslinger.

Go Jake!

[carolinarolls]

Jake's the best of both worlds. A gameslinger.

Go Jake!

priceless

:iagree:

[Dingo_ate_Babies]

Good defense = Jake game manager

Defensive no show = Jake gunslinger

Jake is gonna try and win the game. Nobody really has said much about how the D put us in that spot the end of the last season.

Yes.

When the defense is playing very well, Jake tends to get too comfortable and simply manages the game. This usually results in a sub-par or average performance.

When the defense can't stop anything that day. Jake tends to show up and realizes the game is on him to win the game. He will often do well in these situations.

Occasionally, he'll have a bad game even when the defense sucks and a good game when the defense is hot.

[carolinarolls]

...the apologies for jake delhomme continue

so if he plays bad it's the defense's fault for putting him in a spot to win?

NO

a quarterback cannot expect the defense to never get exposed and put him in a spot to come from behind. When this happens is when we see Jake being the gunslinger that he is. Sure everyone has to throw a hail mary or two in their career but the big play is option number one for him. THAT makes us a weaker team in my opinion.

[Dingo_ate_Babies]

...the apologies for jake delhomme continue

wasn't blaming the defense at all or giving Jake a pass, just retelling how he plays.

[panthers55]

Anybody who wants a gunslinger over a game manager in defensive-minded team whose plan is to rely heavily on the run is somebody without a clue and somebody who will most likely beat the rest of us down at every turn with irrelevant stats and a selective segmentation of favorable scenarios to support their ridiculous ideas.

Seriously Crolls don't include yourself in the rest of us. You are alone in your constant railing about the panthers and everyone on our team. As for irrelevant stats and selective information, how about you give us the relevant information and stats instead of your opinion and speculation with no facts to back it up. At least I can prove my assertions with facts.

Show me with numbers and facts where I am wrong. Instead you will resort to the usual speculation, opinion, and the almighty I saw it so it must be true. The only reason I rarely argue with you is that is a waste of time. You go into the battle of wits without a weapon and have no ammunition to back your assertions. When that doesn't work you begin namecalling and make personal attacks. It gets old. Anyone who goes back and forth soon gives up because you really have nothing new to add to the conversation or any facts to back it up.

As for why a gunslinger fits our offense rather than a game manager- refer back to several posts which clearly discuss it quite well. No need to reinterate it again since frankly you aren't listening anyway. Just waiting to rant away again and beat us down with your skewed speculation until we give up arguing.

You always seem to get the last word in no matter how innane.

[frash.exe]

wow this link leans heavy in the favor of that Jake is a gunslinger QB.

he actually did every QB on a chart

gunslinger vs game manager

[Nu Guns]

It really doesnt matter what term we label him with.

Throw all the stats out there you like, there are reasons why teams do not fear Jake. There are reasons why NFL fans give Jake no kudos-and no its not because of the Arizona game. When nfl fans (not us) look at the Panthers they see Smith/Williams/Stewart. Jake is a poor man's Farve.

Jake is shows good flashes here and there, but he is a average qb.

Perception is reality-Jake is not a feared QB

[mantal]

It really doesnt matter what term we label him with.

Throw all the stats out there you like, there are reasons why teams do not fear Jake. There are reasons why NFL fans give Jake no kudos-and no its not because of the Arizona game. When nfl fans (not us) look at the Panthers they see Smith/Williams/Stewart. Jake is a poor man's Farve.

Jake is shows good flashes here and there, but he is a average qb.

Perception is reality-Jake is not a feared QB

Wrong... Sure he can get burned and has, have never said otherwise, but he can also burn your ass. Ask the San Diego Chargers what they feel about Jake Delhomme, just ask them...