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Delhomme to 40??

scpanther22

By scpanther22,
in Carolina Panthers

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DaveThePanther2008 Grand Master

DaveThePanther2008

Posted
Posted

No actually OUR discussion was whether it was worth a 1st round pick for a QB.

You brought up Big Ben as a SUPERSTAR and I said he was a good game manager. And I would say it to a Steelers fan to their face. And about 50% would agree with me. It isn't an insult to be a good game manager. You say it was his worst game? His worst game was the 1st SB. This SB was a mediocre game with a great drive in the end. I don't take it from him he is a good QB. For a big man he is quite mobile and does make things happen. One perfect throw doesn't make him a superstar QB. And in the Steelers case he was worthy of a 1st round pick. It would be interesting if both were to swap teams but that is another argument.

You want to switch things around and change the subject to make yourself to be some guru of football. I showed you fact you show me mouth. I offer solid proof you offer stupidity. A 1st round bust cost teams MILLIONS of dollars. YEARS of frustrations. So your "examples" of 2nd and 3rd round bust don't hold water to a 1st round bust. They don't cost the team anywhere near the MONEY or TIME invested. There is no comparison. Most teams are not so reluctant to pull the plug on a 2nd or 3rd round QB. For every superstar QB you find in round one I can find one in latter rounds. Like I said before 14 of last 25 SB winning QBs have come from the 2nd round and beyond. To argue that point is insane and you and an army could never convince anyone that knows NFL football any different.

GAME

Let me explain to you what a "Franchise QB" is so you understand what you are arguing about. A Franchise QB is a QB that is supposed to lead your team year in and year out. Guide them to the playoffs (Like Jake and Big Ben) and with a little luck win one or two Super Bowls, ah la your Hero Big Ben. They should guide that team for 7-10-15 years.

Kerry Collins was our "Franchise QB" He was supposed to guide us until he retired. Last I saw he is still playing football. Is he wearing Carolina Colors???? NO!!!!! For whatever reason, character, talent, racism, WTFever you want to call it. HE IS NOT A PANTHER!!!!! So yes 2001 was partially his fault. Yes it is his fault we had to scrammble to find a QB. We found a servicable Aging Vet in Steve Buerlien, but doesn't relieve him. Kerry Collins is the reason we went out a TRADED for Jeff Lewis and gave up a 3rd round in 99 (Joey Porter, Jeff Saturday, Brandon Stokely) 2000 4th Rounder (KGB, Dante Hall). We used a 4th rounder in 2001 to draft Chris Wienke. Though the pick wasn't really a wasted draft choice we could have used it on something else. (Ben Hamilton, Brandon Manumaleuna) Bottom line we shuffled and spent Free Agent Money on a QB, Traded picks away for a QB. ALL this should have never occurred had our [ "Franchise QB" never bombed/bailed out/quit/low character/WTFever on us.

SET

I don't blame the Front Office from not wanting to have to go through that again. The chances of us ever landing a PEYTON MANNING are slim. We will never be that bad again.

Which era would you prefer? 1995-2002 or 2003-2008. The "Franchise QB ERA" or The "Jake Delhomme ERA"

I am finished with this conversation with you. You keep dreaming about the "Franchise QB" you want so bad. I will stick to the reality of the CAROLINA PANTHERS that drafting a 1st round QB is NOT the ANSWER, NOT the way to go. We got our high moral, hard charging, SOLID, "Franchise QB" in Jake Delhomme. Whether he wins it all with us is to be seen. I think he will.

So be a RAGING BULL with someone else. Crash through a China Shop, Pull a Robert Deniro and get some sense pounded into your brain. I don't care. Whatever you so chose. But this Subject with YOU is FINISHED...

MATCH

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QuasiYoda Newbie

QuasiYoda

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Posted

Last Year we were 12 and 4 ! ? Holy Crap we better trash our program we're going to hell in a hand basket. Get rid of the General Manager, Get rid of the Coach, Get rid of the Quarterback. Hmm what should we do? Oh I got it! Lets take the direction of a bunch of whiny know it all posters who can't have an honest discussion about the issues

You guys are just playing with Disinformation Tactics in here not really honestly looking at the issues. Bunch of whiney little boys attacking the poster rather than his arguments like SCpanther22 and others. Or Raging Bull using straw man technique re the Elway/Farve post. Oh I forgot you didn't take issue with Farve but did with Elway lol. My point was leadership and a strong team not a Super Man Quarterback wins Championships or hadn't you noticed . . . it is a team sport.

Sure Jake and the Panthers had a meltdown last year . . . it was reminiscent of the Panthers Bears sequence of 2006. We lost to the Bears here in Charlotte in a let down game that we felt we should have won. Then we went to Chicago after shutting out NYGiants in the 1st round and beat Chicago in a Game they thought they owned before it was played. (They hurt several of our players out of frustration making it hard to beat Seattle playing our 5 or 6th string running backs and so forth.) Much like the Panthers last year. I was much more worried about Cardinals last January than anybody I know. They were kicking our butt in the 1st half of the regular season game then a bad call gave us a Steve Smith touchdown and our running game took over in a gig way. We pulled it out, no reason to be high and mighty in the playoffs though looking back at our playoff history I thought we would find that playoff gear that we had always seemed to find in the past. Not to be.

So the Jake Delhomme Panthers are 5 and 3 in the playoffs (6 and 3 if you count a bye week as a win) not a bad showing. And in the what have you done for me lately vein . . . 12 and 4 last year . . ..quit your whinin and cryin. So since Fox has been here and using Jake Delhomme as quarterback we have been to the playoffs 3 times, the NFC Championship Game twice and the Super Bowl once with a 5 and 3 record. How many teams in the NFC have a better record over that period? 1 or 2 maybe. The Eagles are the ONLY team to be in the NFC Championship more than the Panthers over that time frame.

Get a Clue . . .

After the playoff meltdown we retooled the coaching staff. Legitimate response in my opinion. Several National Pundits wrote articles saying we got out coached. Sorry Fox has strong bedrock football philosophies that are the strength of our team but changing some of our focus is fine. Fundamentals, sharpen them up, they win football games. Mr Scott's reporting sounds like it was a great move on several fronts but we won't know til the Season starts.

Also the Steelers Super Bowl win of 2006 was the worst officiated Super Bowl of recent history. There were 4 terrible calls that went Pittsburgh's way in that one. I was on a financial chat site the next day and everyone was in agreement. None of us had a dog in that fight just hated seeing such an important game torqued by those terrible calls. Last Year's win wasn't anything for the officials to be proud of either . . . .

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frash.exe Apprentice

frash.exe

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Posted

lol at dave making connections between my screen name and my perceived "anger" that I'm raging against him, and then emotionally augmenting his post with large font and bold text. If you can find as many "superstar QBs" later on in the draft as in the first round, then go do it and back up your claims. Otherwise, your declaration of a "game, set, match" is just a steaming pile of monkey crap. ;)

or just go ahead and ignore my trying to disillusion your misconceptions and blind love and keep making baseless claims with little evidence. Keep ignoring my evidence all you want.

Here's the best gem out of them...

You brought up Big Ben as a SUPERSTAR and I said he was a good game manager. And I would say it to a Steelers fan to their face. And about 50% would agree with me. It isn't an insult to be a good game manager.

...

Let me explain to you what a "Franchise QB" is so you understand what you are arguing about. A Franchise QB is a QB that is supposed to lead your team year in and year out. Guide them to the playoffs (Like Jake and Big Ben) and with a little luck win one or two Super Bowls, ah la your Hero Big Ben. They should guide that team for 7-10-15 years.

So in one part of your post you call Ben a "game manager" and then later on define him as a franchise QB? ...but you're trying to school me on what a franchise QB is. ...and like we sacrificed so much drafting Kerry Collins in the 1995 draft with a first rounder. Uh, I think we had 2 other first round picks in that same draft, which turned out to be Poole and Brockermeyer. And I guess you don't consider regime change as a factor because when Bill Polian left we started making terrible decisions and pioneered overall bad drafting such as taking Jason Peter and trading TWO first round picks for Sean Gilbert, ...moves which weren't directed to improve QB play and didn't do much at all either. Collins eventually didn't work out but Gilbert had a lot more to do with our lack of success in 2001 since it was closer in time and we did not have the kind of arsenal at our disposal to draft people in the first round and replenish talent because we didn't have one for 2 years, and we weren't that good at it in the first place.

Quasiyoda, i tried reading your post without chuckling but as soon as I read the part where you called Trent Green a "game manager" I didn't think it was worth anything more than just your heart talking and not your 3 1/2 brain cells. Are we talking about the same Trent Green that helped lead the greatest show on turf alongside Warner in 2000? The same Trent Green that upheld a 90+ QB rating for 4 straight seasons in Kansas City? The same guy that LED the Chiefs offense those seasons?

And you're talking out of your ass saying that was a "straw man". I was just wondering how you thought a 1st round talent HOF QB with exceptionally rare longevity's two late superbowl runs were a harbinger to our QB's future when they both share nothing in common in their skill set except that they both play QB, and I also wondered why you ridiculously stripped him of all his credit owed to him and put it all on Denver's running game/defense.

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frash.exe Apprentice

frash.exe

Posted
Posted

Quick review, I asked...

From an unbiased standpoint, let's be completely honest here. How can people say with a straight face that Jake Delhomme is a better QB option than Ben Roethlisberger? Would anybody say that in the face of a non-Panther fan? (it doesn't even have to be a steelers fan) They just might laugh in your face.

Dave the panther answered...

You brought up Big Ben as a SUPERSTAR and I said he was a good game manager. And I would say it to a Steelers fan to their face. And about 50% would agree with me. It isn't an insult to be a good game manager.

...which either implies that half of steelers fans actually think Jake Delhomme is a better QB option than Ben Roethlisberger, OR, that he completely misunderstood the question and thought I asked him if half of steelers fans thought Ben Roethlisberger was a game manager.

now just who is the one offering stupidity here?

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KillerKat Grand Master

KillerKat

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Posted

When John Elway's Broncos FINALLY Won the Super Bowl (twice) it wasn't because of where had been drafted or his amazing legs/escapability or arm . . . it was because of his leadership and an incredible running game with Terrel Davis. At 38 so much of Elway's skill set had eroded but his team believed in him. And Remember the Year before they won their First Super Bowl in Team History they went 13-3 had a bye in the playoffs and lost their first game at home against the Jacksonville Jaguars. Very much like the Carolina Panthers. The Jaguars that didn't even win it's next game against the Pats who lost to Green Bay in the Super Bowl so it really stung their psyche.

I dont care how much heart Jake has or how much determination he has, if he plays like sh*t all of that doesn't matter. Difference between Delhomme and Elway is that Elway had the skill to go along with his leadership. Also, Jake sucks and Elway didn't. Jake had TWO incredible RBs last season and look what he did with em and where we ended up.

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