Panthers 2011 Dt Grades From Pff

[DaCityKats]

2 different jobs both didn't do their job well. But there were small flashes where McClain looked like a 3tech. I can't remember 1 time where Fua look like a NT or 1tech. Maybe that will change this season.

i know 2 different responsiblities but neither guy showed flashes in my eyes. i was comparing the 2 guys based on what their job was, and neither really stuck out. and the stats says that Fua had just as many pressures as McClain but he doesnt get the same pass.

[MHS831]

Amobi Okoye- 5.5 sacks

Mccoy- 3 sacks

Marcell Dareus-5.5 sacks and was one of PFF's highly graded run defenders

Phillip Taylor- 4 sacks

Sedrick Ellis- 4 sacks

Tyson- Alualu-3.5 sacks

Muhammed Wilkerson- 3 sacks

That sounds pretty fuging solid to me.

Sione Fua- 9 tackles, yes. Nine fuging tackles. NINE TACKLES

Mcclain actually has a chance, but Fua is pure ass.

You illustrate my point. I give you 18 FIRST rounders and you pick out the top 7 to use as a comparision to our THIRD rounders. I said our third round rookies sucked. I said most do. 11 of 18 first rounders did not make your list because they too sucked. In other words, if you draft a DT in the third round and compare him to the top third of recent first rounders, you are going to be disappointed.

The point of my post was that most DTs suck as rookies.

Besides, sacks are nice, but DTs are not usually measured by their sack production. If that is the sole and lone measure of DT prowess, you are mistaken.

Fua was basically a fourth round (comp pick at end of third) developmental project. Edwards went down and he was thrown into the fire. Comparing Fua to McClain is silly because they have different jobs. Of course Fua was blown out more--look how many double teams he faced.

[bleys]

It seems like Panther fans have the most excuses in the world for players.

"GUYS! Stop calling Clausen a bust wait until he has a competent coaching staff" What did he do? NOTHING

"GUYS! Armanti Edwards is gonna flourish under teh Chudz just wait guyz lol" What did he do? NOTHING

"GUYS! Stop calling Everette Brown a bust, Rivera will know what to do with him" lol he got fuging cut, and did absolutely NOTHING

The fans are so fuging oblivious, and the "Stop questioning Hurney attitude and the coaching staff" is almost sheep like, as if you all are all fuging sheep.

Disagreeing with people and the FO is perfectly acceptable.. I dare you to find anyone who says otherwise.. I think the only point most reasonable people are trying to communicate is it's pretty much laughable that a fan (with all their prestige) would think project rookies hit their ceiling in their 1st year.. Especially considering you lack any access at all to make such a statement, rather than forming knee-jerk opinions and letting the obvious percentages take over..

I mean, what's more delusional? Giving Rivera time to do his job or pretend you have a clue without any of the experience, knowledge, or access... I guess it's easier to try to classify an entire group of people under one stereotype instead of recognizing the process that's involved in building a team and pretending "those fans" are the delusional ones..

I'm sure these people who felt the optimism from last year are going to have something different to say if we follow the same John Fox mediocre business model through the next 2-3 years.. Until then, they are refraining from vomiting everywhere because they themselves know how to accept disagreements, unlike yourself...

[koolkatluke]

i know 2 different responsiblities but neither guy showed flashes in my eyes. i was comparing the 2 guys based on what their job was, and neither really stuck out. and the stats says that Fua had just as many pressures as McClain but he doesnt get the same pass.

What stats Pff? Yeah I don't trust their stats all the time.

[koolkatluke]

You illustrate my point. I give you 18 FIRST rounders and you pick out the top 7 to use as a comparision to our THIRD rounders. I said our third round rookies sucked. I said most do. 11 of 18 first rounders did not make your list because they too sucked. In other words, if you draft a DT in the third round and compare him to the top third of recent first rounders, you are going to be disappointed.

The point of my post was that most DTs suck as rookies.

Besides, sacks are nice, but DTs are not usually measured by their sack production. If that is the sole and lone measure of DT prowess, you are mistaken.

Fua was basically a fourth round (comp pick at end of third) developmental project. Edwards went down and he was thrown into the fire. Comparing Fua to McClain is silly because they have different jobs. Of course Fua was blown out more--look how many double teams he faced.

I saw a lot of teams pushed Fua out the way with 1 person not needing to double team him.

[bleys]

Cox hasn't played a game yet so can we really talk about success on the next level? But beyond that Ninja called 6'4 305-307 undersize. Which mean every DT on this team other then Shirley and Krease are under size.

fug Cox, you guys can discuss whatever it is you are talking about.. I simply stated dude's comment wasn't nearly as exaggerated as it may seem due to bust rates for DTs in the 1st.. although that does happen to imply success is not in his favor..

yeah, 305 isn't exactly undersized..

[PantherPhann89]

At least we've got competition at the DT position. I'm not sure that there was a DT in the draft that would immediately be such an improvement that we had to draft him and obliviously, our coaching staff felt the same. We have greater needs that the DT position, but thats all the media harped on, so a lot of our fans falls in line. My biggest position in the draft was CB. I probably would've drafted JJ in the 1st, since Claiborne was gone, although it would've been hard to pass up on a sure tackler like Kuechly. A LB in the 2nd, I liked Brown and he's local.

[koolkatluke]

fug Cox, you guys can discuss whatever it is you are talking about.. I simply stated dude's comment wasn't nearly as exaggerated as it may seem due to bust rates for DTs in the 1st.. although that does happen to imply success is not in his favor..

yeah, 305 isn't exactly undersized..

Which was the whole point of the debate.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

Not to harp on this but Fletcher Cox is listed at 294...so yes 10-15 under prototype.*

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664281

*keep in mind as of today. He could gain all kinds of "hgh" assisted muscle mass as he grows into his body.

Also some of Cox's measurables were topped by Mcclain...but maybe you think Cox will be a Suh type guy..we will see i guess.

[nickzz]

Cool logic bro. I guess Charles Johnson and Steve Smith were wasted 3rd round picks after their rookie year too.

steve smith was an all-pro his rookie season~

[Marguide]

I like PFF and use the site often. However, I can guarantee you that I watch each snap of Panther games many times more than they do. Neblett was our best 3 tech by far. McClain made a few plays here and there, giving some hope for the future, but overall, he was consistently dominated.

Fua isn't nearly the player at this point in his career as Kearse or Shirley. Not to say he can't improve, but he has a long way to go.

Finally, as to why Rivera seems to like Kearse more than Shirley...I remember one play late in the season (sorry, don't remember the game) when Kearse was on the nose. The opposing RB took the play off tackle to the right. Kearse was tied up with two blockers and looked as though he was out of the play. At the last minute, he disengaged the blockers, turned and made a running lunge at the RB, pulling him down from behind. Watching that play made me think of Rivera's comments and helped me understand why he likes the potential of Kearse. In his extensive playing time, Fua never did anything that even approached the effort and execution Kearse showed on that one play.

[Swaggasaurus]

Again Ninja wasn't talking about what they did in the pro's. Their is no way with Cox having not played a game yet.

We are talking about skill sets

Cox

2012 NFL Combine Results 40-Yard Dash 4.79 Bench press 30 Vertical jump 26.0 Broad jump 8'7 Three-cone drill 7.07 20-yard shuttle 4.53

Suh

2010 NFL Combine Results 40-Yard Dash 4.98 Bench press 32 Vertical jump 35.5 Broad jump 8'09

McClain

2011 NFL Combine Results 40-Yard Dash 5.00 Vertical jump 28.0 Broad jump 8'8 Three-cone drill

7.48

Seems a lot closer to Suh then McClain.

This makes no goddamn since for you to post. Both broads were one inch apart. Both verts two inches apart, Suh's 40 was .02 faster than McClain and 40 does not matter and the difference is minute which washes that out. You failed to list benches and three cones for all three participants. This is the most fail post that I have ever seen. I have no fuging idea how you thought this would help your cause. Cox is closer to McClain in vert and broad jump is an even split. .02 in a 40 time for a Dlineman means poo. You did not list 3 cone for Suh or Bench for McClain. So from what you posted Cox is no more like Suh or McClain, what the hell is wrong with your brain?

[koolkatluke]

Not to harp on this but Fletcher Cox is listed at 294...so yes 10-15 under prototype.*

http://www.cbssports...players/1664281

*keep in mind as of today. He could gain all kinds of "hgh" assisted muscle mass as he grows into his body.

Also some of Cox's measurables were topped by Mcclain...but maybe you think Cox will be a Suh type guy..we will see i guess.

Dude can you just stop making yourself look stupid.

Cox has great size and weight isn't as big of a deal as you're trying to make it out to be. Kid could add 5-10 pounds in a month and he has 4 before the season starts.

[Swaggasaurus]

This makes no goddamn since for you to post. Both broads were one inch apart. Both verts two inches apart, Suh's 40 was .02 faster than McClain and 40 does not matter and the difference is minute which washes that out. You failed to list benches and three cones for all three participants. This is the most fail post that I have ever seen. I have no fuging idea how you thought this would help your cause. Cox is closer to McClain in vert and broad jump is an even split. .02 in a 40 time for a Dlineman means poo. You did not list 3 cone for Suh or Bench for McClain. So from what you posted Cox is no more like Suh or McClain, what the hell is wrong with your brain?

Correction Suh's vert was 35 inches McClain 28 cox 26 which totally makes Cox more like McClain based on your bullshit post because Cox is closer in both Vert and Broad. My mind is fuged right now