Shirley Could Be The Odd Man Out In Dt Battle.

[koolkatluke]

This isn't about there grading. They sat and watched the tape and saw him make plays from behind the line. They typed what they saw. This isnt skewed by grading or some formula. If you throw that out, then your throwing your own argument in which your using what you saw. Considering there a objective source and are inelligent people don't see why It should be debated in this instance that there wrong. It's not a easy mistake to make. They would be able to make out wether player made a play or just fell on him. That's why they watch the tape. And once again, if you don't believe anything else, believe our coach who specifically stated Fua improvement and McLain struggles.

You keep saying this could you show a link to Rivera saying this?

But again this is the same site that has Pressley graded as our best DT last year on 40 snaps.

Or the fact they have Ron Feilds graded higher then Nebblet (who IMO was the Best DT last year). So it's obvious the team doesn't agree with PFF grading system since they Cut Ron Fields after game 8 and Nebblet is still on the roster.

[frash.exe]

it just shows you how obviously depleted the position's become that we can sign a guy off the street that hasn't played organized football in 3 fuging years and he makes the most impact out of any DT on the roster

[MaineManPanther]

You keep saying this could you show a link to Rivera saying this?

But again this is the same site that has Pressley graded as our best DT last year on 40 snaps.

Or the fact they have Ron Feilds graded higher then Nebblet (who IMO was the Best DT last year). So it's obvious the team doesn't agree with PFF grading system since they Cut Ron Fields after game 8 and Nebblet is still on the roster.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/11/28/2812277/rivera-assesses-rookies.html

Again If I was using the grading as a argument, then this would be relveant and I would happily debate the legitimacy of their grading. If you want to debate that in its own thread then I'll join in. But I want to focus on the original debate point.

I pointed to a paragraph where they simply stated that after watching the tape of Fua they witnessed and noted him in on and making multiple plays. This is before any grading intervened.

It would be not so different then either you or me sitting down objectively , intelligently and exclusivley watching Fua play and typing what we saw.

If we dispute that, then we're disputing anybody who uses what they saw as a argument. ( as you have done in this thread).

[koolkatluke]

http://www.charlotte...es-rookies.html

Again If I was using the grading as a argument, then this would be relveant and I would happily debate the legitimacy of their grading. If you want to debate that in its own thread then I'll join in. But I want to focus on the original debate point.

I pointed to a paragraph where they simply stated that after watching the tape of Fua they witnessed and noted him in on and making multiple plays. This is before any grading intervened.

It would be not so different then either you or me sitting down objectively , intelligently and exclusivley watching Fua play and typing what we saw.

If we dispute that, then we're disputing anybody who uses what they saw as a argument. ( as you have done in this thread).

At various times this season, Panthers coach Ron Rivera has seen first-year players struggling with the so-called rookie wall.

He's seen it particularly in rookie defensive tackles Sione Fua and Terrell McClain.

He said they both hit the wall.

Rivera said Fua had "probably his best game" against Indianapolis while McClain struggled.

"(McClain has) kind of hit a little wall the last couple games, and we're starting to see Sione play a little better," Rivera said. "He was effective. He had two good pressures this game."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/11/28/2812277/rivera-assesses-rookies.html#storylink=cpy

He was talking about 1 game and you guys act like he said Fua was better then Mcclain all season. Not to mention it wasn't even the same game PFF thought was his best game. He had 2 good pressure against a bad Colts Oline wow.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/11/28/2812277/rivera-assesses-rookies.html#storylink=cpy

[nickzz]

lets be serious, one of them is going to be injured by the time the season starts anyways.

[MaineManPanther]

Of course its different from PFF, the Saints* game post what in week five, as I stated. The Indy game was in week twelve.

Our whole argument was me saying your exaggerating Fua's never showing promise and challenged me to name one. I gave two. One of which was backed by the coach. If you dismiss Fua from because of the talent of the opposing line, then that makes McLain struggles even worse, especially considing that as a under tackle his primary job is to generate pressure.

[koolkatluke]

Of course its different from PFF, the Saints** game post what in week five, as I stated. The Indy game was in week twelve.

Our whole argument was me saying your exaggerating Fua's never showing promise and challenged me to name one. I gave two. One of which was backed by the coach. If you dismiss Fua from because of the talent of the opposing line, then that makes McLain struggles even worse, especially considing that as a under tackle his primary job is to generate pressure.

I might disagree with Ron on the Indy game a littile we gave 19 points to a bad offense and 5.7 yards a carry to Donald Brown.

Again i didn't say McClain was a game changer either he just had a higher level of crappy play then Fua.

Last your article paints a different picture then what you keep saying. You act like Ron said Fua was better all season. In the article he seems to say McClain look like he was hitting a wall around games 10 thru 12. But before then he was better then Fua and Fua started playing better the last 2 games they played before they both went on IR.

So Just by your article it seem like Ron thinks McClain was better then Fua in the 1st 9-10 games and Fua played better then McClain in the last 2-3 games they played.

[Swaggasaurus]

I might disagree with Ron on the Indy game a littile we gave 19 points to a bad offense and 5.7 yards a carry to Donald Brown.

Again i didn't say McClain was a game changer either he just had a higher level of crappy play then Fua.

Last your article paints a different picture then what you keep saying. You act like Ron said Fua was better all season. In the article he seems to say McClain look like he was hitting a wall around games 10 thru 12. But before then he was better then Fua and Fua started playing better the last 2 games they played before they both went on IR.

So Just by your article it seem like Ron thinks McClain was better then Fua in the 1st 9-10 games and Fua played better then McClain in the last 2-3 games they played.

In no way can you actually determine that, what a way to twist some nothing into shitty nothing. Please address why McClain does not have more stats considering his job was to make plays in the backfield while Fua's job was to eat doubles. While Fua did face some singles, he faced far more doubles than McClain. I do not have any stats to throw in to prove that statement, but as the great KKL once stated "but it's what I saw okay guys, doesn't that mean anything to you, I WATCHED THE GAMES GUYS, stats schmatz, grades schmades"

[MaineManPanther]

I might disagree with Ron on the Indy game a littile we gave 19 points to a bad offense and 5.7 yards a carry to Donald Brown.

Again i didn't say McClain was a game changer either he just had a higher level of crappy play then Fua.

Last your article paints a different picture then what you keep saying. You act like Ron said Fua was better all season. In the article he seems to say McClain look like he was hitting a wall around games 10 thru 12. But before then he was better then Fua and Fua started playing better the last 2 games they played before they both went on IR.

So Just by your article it seem like Ron thinks McClain was better then Fua in the 1st 9-10 games and Fua played better then McClain in the last 2-3 games they played.

I wasn't using the article to say Fua was better over the season. The argument was wether Fua showed any flashes, that article has Rivera giving merit to my side. That was the point of me repatingly stating that. Nothing more.

I think thats way to much interpretation for one sentence of a quote. It could also meant they both played at the same low level for the majority of the season, then McLain dropped even lower while Fua showed some form of improvement. No way to know, and no point in trying.

And finally,nothing personal but If our initial argument on Fua flashes ,comes down to Riveras opinion or yours , I'll take the head coach.

[top dawg]

I don't really worry about such things. As fans, we probably need to see more of a sampling of actual game-play before we can even judge as to who are the better DTs on our team because every DT not named Edwards is somewhat of a mystery. That being the case, I will let the coaching staff debate the DTs and accept their determination as to who hits the field, the bench, and the bricks.

[koolkatluke]

In no way can you actually determine that, what a way to twist some nothing into shitty nothing. Please address why McClain does not have more stats considering his job was to make plays in the backfield while Fua's job was to eat doubles. While Fua did face some singles, he faced far more doubles than McClain. I do not have any stats to throw in to prove that statement, but as the great KKL once stated "but it's what I saw okay guys, doesn't that mean anything to you, I WATCHED THE GAMES GUYS, stats schmatz, grades schmades"

What F'n double team did you see him demanded or get? And since we were giving up 5.4 YPC when he was the primary NT and since his job was to "demand double teams and tie up blockers". 5.4 ypc means he wasn't doing his job.

[Kuech the Sneak]

Shirley kearse and neblett should all be on the roster this year based on performance...If they have strong camps I don't see how they justify playing McClain and fua ahead of them

[Swaggasaurus]

What F'n double team did you see him demanded or get? And since we were giving up 5.4 YPC when he was the primary NT and since his job was to "demand double teams and tie up blockers". 5.4 ypc means he wasn't doing his job.

It's just what I saw man, you know from watching the games, totally saw him take doubles. He was doing this while McClain was getting manhandled 5 yards behind the LOS, again THIS IS WHAT I SAW FROM WATCHING THE GAME, YPC MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE IT IS NOT WHAT I SAW.

[koolkatluke]

I wasn't using the article to say Fua was better over the season. The argument was wether Fua showed any flashes, that article has Rivera giving merit to my side. That was the point of me repatingly stating that. Nothing more.

I think thats way to much interpretation for one sentence of a quote. It could also meant they both played at the same low level for the majority of the season, then McLain dropped even lower while Fua showed some form of improvement. No way to know, and no point in trying.

And finally,nothing personal but If our initial argument on Fua flashes ,comes down to Riveras opinion or yours , I'll take the head coach.

No I also go off of Ron's actions. During the middle of the season Ron was giving Ron Fields snaps at Fua position during weeks 4-7. Fields didn't start but he took some snaps away from Fua during this time.