The Years Of Marty Hurney

[DaveThePanther2008]

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Eric_DeCosta

It was going good until the part about signing a new contract making him one of the highest paid executives and eventual heir to Ozzie Newsome Job.

[Tarheel31]

Drafting Dwayne Jarrett ahead of Steve Smith and James Jones.

You can't have 2 steve smiths, too confusing.

[unicar15]

You missed a lot of good picks, failed to acknowledge all the guys he has found who have been great in the later rounds or were undrafted free agents. You failed to mention what a coup he had getting Delhomme who was a perennial backup and led us to the Superbowl in his first season instead focusing on a resigning which was for cap reasons and largely included money he was going to get anyway.

Then to focus on who we could have drafted and skipped on in hindsight is more than ridiculous. You could second guess every GM and point out all the people they failed to draft, etc.

No one is saying that Hurney is great but your hatchet job was hardly objective or indicative of who he has been for us.

As for building a consistent winner, it takes a franchise quarterback. New England and New York have had success because of their quarterback more than any other factor. I suspect that we will do just that now that we have drafted Newton.

First of all I gave him credit for Delhomme if you see my "Free agent hits" section. Secondly, where are all of the great picks that he made that I didn't give him credit for? Am I supposed to say that Captain Munnerlyn was a fantastic pick when everyone was hoping that we would upgrade that position this year? I mean to me a great pick is a guy that you find in rounds 4-7 who becomes a good starter. Hurney may have had some rotational defensive players that he can hang his hat on in that realm (Greg Hardy comes to mind) but as far as guys that other GMs have found it doesn't even come close.

I agree that Newton is the franchise QB that this team has needed and I'm glad he is with us. But the fact of the matter is that the Baltimore Ravens aren't sold on Joe Flacco (who has led them to multiple AFCC games) yet we were sold on giving Delhomme an extension after a bunch of mediocre seasons and a meltdown of epic proportions?? To me that is BAD team management. Just as was the huge contract he gave to Williams and the fact that it has taken him his entire tenure to find a good tight end and a complement wide receiver to Steve Smith. Those are just things off the top of my head where Hurney has dropped the ball.

And again...go back and read the stuff I have written. I called him a mediocre GM...not a terrible GM. I hardly feel like the assessment I gave was overly critical. Yeah I know that hindsight is 20/20 but I bet there are going to be a lot of people out there that think we should have done things differently in this draft...and I think some of those ideas will be proven correct down the road.

[pOpCoRnPoPpEr]

As a Skins fan, you don't really want to go there, do you?

Has nothing to do with the convo.

[panthers55]

First of all I gave him credit for Delhomme if you see my "Free agent hits" section. Secondly, where are all of the great picks that he made that I didn't give him credit for? Am I supposed to say that Captain Munnerlyn was a fantastic pick when everyone was hoping that we would upgrade that position this year? I mean to me a great pick is a guy that you find in rounds 4-7 who becomes a good starter. Hurney may have had some rotational defensive players that he can hang his hat on in that realm (Greg Hardy comes to mind) but as far as guys that other GMs have found it doesn't even come close.

I agree that Newton is the franchise QB that this team has needed and I'm glad he is with us. But the fact of the matter is that the Baltimore Ravens aren't sold on Joe Flacco (who has led them to multiple AFCC games) yet we were sold on giving Delhomme an extension after a bunch of mediocre seasons and a meltdown of epic proportions?? To me that is BAD team management. Just as was the huge contract he gave to Williams and the fact that it has taken him his entire tenure to find a good tight end and a complement wide receiver to Steve Smith. Those are just things off the top of my head where Hurney has dropped the ball.

And again...go back and read the stuff I have written. I called him a mediocre GM...not a terrible GM. I hardly feel like the assessment I gave was overly critical. Yeah I know that hindsight is 20/20 but I bet there are going to be a lot of people out there that think we should have done things differently in this draft...and I think some of those ideas will be proven correct down the road.

First of all mentioning Delhomme as a single hit while devoting sentences to the supposed misses is hardly giving him his due. But regardless of that several of the free agent misses were not really misses. Wahle came in and in his second year went to the pro bowl. He was released due to injury which is hardly Hurney's fault. Lucas was actually a pretty good ball player and his handling of the Smith incident proved him to be a classy guy. We didn't resign him due to age and cost but he was hardly a miss.

We didn't lose Witherspoon, we made him an offer to him and Morgan. Morgan accepted and Witherspoon got more money from St Louis. When we don't pay people bitch, when we do pay people bitch. Once again we didn't lose Peppers, he wanted to play elsewhere for personal reasons. We kept him until his cap hit was 20 million bucks and couldn't do it anymore.

Other things that pissed me of about your post. You say he took 3 years to try and replace Colbert and Carter but them bitch when we signed DJ Hackett who was an attempt to replace Colbert. And what about Dwayne Jarrett and Ryne Robinson in 2007 when it was clear that Carter and Colbert weren't the future. Colbert had a very good 2004 and Carter was hurt so it was at least 2007 before we knew they weren't the ones. And what did Hurney do? Draft a 2nd round and 4th round receiver to take their place in 2007.

As for TEs he drafted one in the 5th round in 3 successive drafts (2006, 2007, 2008). At least 1 of them should have worked out.

And then you blame Hurney for not convincing Richardson to fire Fox earlier???? Lets ignore that Richardson wasn't going to spend money for a new coach and still pay Fox the 5 million he was due. Forget that Richardson was going on the cheap in 2010 and expected a long lock out and wasn't going to hire and pay for a coach if there was going to be no season. Ignore that Hurney's contract was up at the time and while he was supposedly given an extension, hasn't signed it and as hardly in a position to tell Richarson what to do.

And then under contracts that shouldn't happened, you bitch we let Pepper's walk, you bitch we franchised him and you forget that he wouldn't sign the franchise tag the year earlier when we could have traded him specifically so we couldn't trade him????? You talk out of both sides at the same time. And the Delhomme extension was discussed ad nauseum and it was clear that it was a cap move at the time and we only paid him money that we owed him anyway. He never received much of that extension.

And I could go on and on but I will stop. The reality is that if you hit with 3 players in the draft you did a great job. If you hit with 2 you are average and anything above that is gravy. As for free agency, the misses and big contracts are the reason we primarily go with the draft. And that is Richardson's doing not specifically Hurney. Try and remember that he is not the only one making decisions and operates within a team.

So yeah many of your criticisms were off base, unwarranted and biased. And if you continue to use hindsight as your marker to judge others you will always find fault as no GM usually is right more than about 50 to 60% of the time. And that is considered pretty good much like a baseball player would be a world beater if he got a hit 40% of the time.

[unicar15]

First of all mentioning Delhomme as a single hit while devoting sentences to the supposed misses is hardly giving him his due. But regardless of that several of the free agent misses were not really misses. Wahle came in and in his second year went to the pro bowl. He was released due to injury which is hardly Hurney's fault. Lucas was actually a pretty good ball player and his handling of the Smith incident proved him to be a classy guy. We didn't resign him due to age and cost but he was hardly a miss.

So you are a little sensitive because I didn't write sentences for the Delhomme pickup? That's your choice. Next time I will be sure to write more. Will it also make you happy if I put Wahle and Lucas in the "so-so" category? I still don't think it was money well-spent. I'm almost positive that they were both paid in the top 2-3 for their respective positions. Wahle like you said was good for ONE YEAR...how that is a good investment, IDK? Lucas played opposite a better corner so QBs opted to pick on him rather than Gamble and he ended up with 13 INTs in 4 seasons. I would say Lucas is more defensible than Wahle but when you give a guy a contract that makes him the highest paid interior linemen in the league, you expect Steve Hutchinson...not a single-season wonder.

We didn't lose Witherspoon, we made him an offer to him and Morgan. Morgan accepted and Witherspoon got more money from St Louis. When we don't pay people bitch, when we do pay people bitch. Once again we didn't lose Peppers, he wanted to play elsewhere for personal reasons. We kept him until his cap hit was 20 million bucks and couldn't do it anymore.

Thank you for making my point about Spoon. We took the money we could have used to keep him and gave it to a guy that never played more than 3/4 of the season? I loved the fight that Dan Morgan displayed but this decision should have come down to football. Do you think the Rooneys are giving a second contract to a MLB that played only 42 of his first 64 games? Its the most important position in our defense and the guy was never on the field. So instead of keeping a guy who missed 1 game in his first four years with us we give the contract to the guy who has missed 1/3 of the games?? That is just a stupid decision...keep the guy who stayed healthy and start thinking about replacing the guy who has been injured. It sucks...but that is how GMs for great teams operate.

I concede Peppers...he was my lone mistake. I shouldn't have mentioned him because he was ready to leave. HOWEVER...I think a main reason he wanted to leave was because of Fox's "it is what it is" mentality. Agree to disagree on whether Hurney had input on Fox. All you have to do is look and see that JR let Fox walk...yet he kept Hurney around. He obviously values Hurney's opinion.

Other things that pissed me of about your post. You say he took 3 years to try and replace Colbert and Carter but them bitch when we signed DJ Hackett who was an attempt to replace Colbert. And what about Dwayne Jarrett and Ryne Robinson in 2007 when it was clear that Carter and Colbert weren't the future. Colbert had a very good 2004 and Carter was hurt so it was at least 2007 before we knew they weren't the ones. And what did Hurney do? Draft a 2nd round and 4th round receiver to take their place in 2007.

You can argue with me if you want about the WR but it has been a black eye on Hurney's tenure. I guess you are a nicer guy than I am but I don't count the failures of DJ Hackett, Dwayne Jarrett, and Ryne Robinson as a credit to Hurney's ability. If anything it shows incompetence that he has missed so many times on #2 WRs. I think he has finally found replacements in LaFell and Gettis but how many attempts does it take?? It was pathetic...so I'm not giving him credit for striking out.

As for TEs he drafted one in the 5th round in 3 successive drafts (2006, 2007, 2008). At least 1 of them should have worked out.

They didn't work out...that's the point. I believe I cited one of those picks as a bad pick because he opted for Jeff King over Owen Daniels in a time where we CLEARLY needed a pass-catching tight end...but then again I guess your argument on that front would be if Jeff King had gone to the Texans he would be regarded as one of the best TEs in the league...because he should have worked out?

And then you blame Hurney for not convincing Richardson to fire Fox earlier???? Lets ignore that Richardson wasn't going to spend money for a new coach and still pay Fox the 5 million he was due. Forget that Richardson was going on the cheap in 2010 and expected a long lock out and wasn't going to hire and pay for a coach if there was going to be no season. Ignore that Hurney's contract was up at the time and while he was supposedly given an extension, hasn't signed it and as hardly in a position to tell Richarson what to do.

I can agree with this.

And then under contracts that shouldn't happened, you bitch we let Pepper's walk, you bitch we franchised him and you forget that he wouldn't sign the franchise tag the year earlier when we could have traded him specifically so we couldn't trade him????? You talk out of both sides at the same time. And the Delhomme extension was discussed ad nauseum and it was clear that it was a cap move at the time and we only paid him money that we owed him anyway. He never received much of that extension.

And I could go on and on but I will stop. The reality is that if you hit with 3 players in the draft you did a great job. If you hit with 2 you are average and anything above that is gravy. As for free agency, the misses and big contracts are the reason we primarily go with the draft. And that is Richardson's doing not specifically Hurney. Try and remember that he is not the only one making decisions and operates within a team.

So yeah many of your criticisms were off base, unwarranted and biased. And if you continue to use hindsight as your marker to judge others you will always find fault as no GM usually is right more than about 50 to 60% of the time. And that is considered pretty good much like a baseball player would be a world beater if he got a hit 40% of the time.

I don't care if Hurney is right as many times as every other GM. He isn't right TO THE EXTENT of other GMs in the later rounds. Other GMs find superstars in the 1st round (I'll admit Hurney does a good job in the 1st round) but they build the rest of their team with 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders and they hit on a larger percentage of those players, which separates a mediocre GM from a really good GM. Why do you think Hurney tried to trade for 1st rounders and high 2nd rounders so many times (reportedly he only got the deals done on a few of the many times he tried)??? It's because his ability to hit on players in the later rounds sucks so he knows he needs to try and hit on as many 1st rounders as possible.

Again...for the 3rd time since I started this thread I don't think Hurney is a terrible GM. I think he is a mediocre GM who hits on first round draft picks and not a whole lot else. I think that he has a great opportunity with Cam and if we aren't a contender in the playoffs year after year for the foreseeable future he should be fired. I'll give him all the credit in the world if we win big...he'll deserve it. But for now he is 3/10 on building a playoff team and our record while he's been GM is .500. That is the definition of mediocre.

[panthers55]

And I think he is better than mediocre. I think he has done a pretty good job given what he has to work with. I don't think he is responsible for winning or losing just providing the players to the coaches so they can win. He has done that and also has done a good job finding players to come in and contribute when we have myriads of injuries at one or two positions each year. Given he can't buy a team with a bunch of free agents like Philly or Atlanta as of late, he has done a good job drafting players and supplementing it with role players, journeymen and contributors.

Given that we went 2-10 in 2010 which he had little responsible for creating, and we wiped out most of the veteran talent the fact that we are even talking playoff potential is a credit to how fast he can build a roster.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

I think Hurney has done a good job. I think fans just have ridiculous expectations. There are threads about our fourth round picks being busts and his second round misses, but people should realize that he is better than most GMs for rarely missing in the first round and keeping the team (except for one season where the circumstances were extreme) around .500 or better.

I'd take him over a lot of other front office guys. Is he perfect? No. Should his job be in jeopardy if this season doesn't go well? Absolutely. But I don't think many executives would have done a better job than he has.

[Marguide]

What makes a great GM? With few exceptions (read Ozzie N.), it's the same thing that makes great coaches, namely, a great QB.

In a few years we will all be singing Marty's praises thanks to Cam Newton.

Great QB's make great teams, and that is how GM's are defined.