The Minnesota Relocation Battle.

[stankowalski]

Panthers have never asked a cent from Charlotte and thats why they are the Carolina Panthers and not the Charlotte Panthers. IMO the Vikes are just greedy and want to move so they make more doe. Im just happy JR is not money hungry like some owners.

Mostly agree, but I really don't think the Vikings care about deer one way or the other...JMO.

[Snake]

Charlotte paid for the land the Panthers are on.

Contributers paid for the land and the field. I know because my family was one of them.

[ctrcat]

My best friend from college is from Minnesota. Those poor folks are in a tough spot. Their government is bankrupt and shutdown last year, and that just so happens to be in the same 1-2 year period that the Metrodome roof collapses and their lease ends there.

Insane to think of the Los Angeles Vikings, but the Lakers and North Stars were also names that originated there. I also am, and always will be, however, frustrated this state didn't steal the Twins from them when they dangled them right in front of our face. The QC couldn't get it done at the time, and the Triad voted that they'd rather spend $1.00 on a double cheeseburger vs. $.99, with the extra $.01 meaning major league baseball and a franchise that was very successful over the last decade, after they even narrowly avoided contraction. Now we're still suck with no MLB in the summer months despite being the fastest growing city and/or state in the country and in a baseball hotbed, while they DO have a GREAT MLB venue.

Nonetheless, I'm just perplexed that MN would build stadiums for all their other pro teams, and even the University of Minnesota, but not for the most popular sport in the country and their most popular team. Just imagine if people were in the Metrodome when it collapsed. Crazy.

[panthersphan]

Panthers have never asked a cent from Charlotte and thats why they are the Carolina Panthers and not the Charlotte Panthers. IMO the Vikes are just greedy and want to move so they make more doe. Im just happy JR is not money hungry like some owners.

Ummmm, not at all....

The Panthers are "Carolina" because it's a broader market and, in turn, will make more $$$... drrrrrrrrrr

[PeteRozelle]

Umm.... what the hell are you talking about? Give me the names of these studies, and the researchers behind them, or else you just made that completely up.

Im out of town, and Im reading the forums from my phone, so direct inks are rather difficult. But a quick google search with the words "Economic impact Stadium" is a good starting point.

You will find most often than not, Pro sports offer "Economic Shifts" and 'Economic Substitutes" to local economies. Basically you take money from somewhere else you would have normally spent for entertainment, and put it towards a sporting event. Some people will even slow spending through the week to "allow" themselves to go to a game.

Families/People have budgets, and they usually are very consistent in their spending patterns.

..and thats just on an individual level. Go to your local theater during a game, I bet its taken a hit in sales, or go to the mall, or a restaurant (Not around the stadium), and you will see that business drops off during game events.

Charlotte's economy didnt suddenly grow by any percentage points when we got a team. It was doing fine with or without any sports franchise.

Do pro sports make a city more desirable? Absolutely! Do I love pro sports? Absolutely again, but I just dont think we should pay out of our pockets to fund these projects when owners and athletes are making a killing.

Pete

[tiger7_88]

I dont believe any form of government should be involved in building stadiums for professional teams or funding any private industry/business for that matter..

They sure didnt help me when I opened up my businesses. Actually quite the opposite, they were/are almost always in the way.

Pete

Amen.

[mmmbeans]

f*ck publicly funding one of the most lucrative businesses in the world.

f*ck it. leave.

[PiratePanther189]

Im out of town, and Im reading the forums from my phone, so direct inks are rather difficult. But a quick google search with the words "Economic impact Stadium" is a good starting point.

You will find most often than not, Pro sports offer "Economic Shifts" and 'Economic Substitutes" to local economies. Basically you take money from somewhere else you would have normally spent for entertainment, and put it towards a sporting event. Some people will even slow spending through the week to "allow" themselves to go to a game.

Families/People have budgets, and they usually are very consistent in their spending patterns.

..and thats just on an individual level. Go to your local theater during a game, I bet its taken a hit in sales, or go to the mall, or a restaurant (Not around the stadium), and you will see that business drops off during game events.

Charlotte's economy didnt suddenly grow by any percentage points when we got a team. It was doing fine with or without any sports franchise.

Do pro sports make a city more desirable? Absolutely! Do I love pro sports? Absolutely again, but I just dont think we should pay out of our pockets to fund these projects when owners and athletes are making a killing.

Pete

There's your economic impact my friend. Relevent entertainment (proffesional sports) makes a city more desirable and also much more well known. I think that everyone can agree that without the Panthers or the uptown TWC Arena, Charlotte's central business district would be nowhere near as lively or relevant as it is today. The economic impact a sports team has isn't that it "helps the entire economy of the city." No. That's bullshit. What a sports team does is give the city a wealthy entity that makes it more desireable and mature while also contributing to the city with things like community service. In other words, the Panthers give mid-size or large businesses another reason to move their headquarters or large offices to Charlotte and in turn stimulate the economy by moving their current employees and creating jobs. 2 good examples of recent corporate business additions to Charlotte are Chiquita Bananas and ALLY Bank, and I have no doubt they're here because it makes the city more recognizable than it ever has been, and a big reason for that is the Panthers.

[Inimicus]

Im out of town, and Im reading the forums from my phone, so direct inks are rather difficult. But a quick google search with the words "Economic impact Stadium" is a good starting point.

You will find most often than not, Pro sports offer "Economic Shifts" and 'Economic Substitutes" to local economies. Basically you take money from somewhere else you would have normally spent for entertainment, and put it towards a sporting event. Some people will even slow spending through the week to "allow" themselves to go to a game.

Families/People have budgets, and they usually are very consistent in their spending patterns.

..and thats just on an individual level. Go to your local theater during a game, I bet its taken a hit in sales, or go to the mall, or a restaurant (Not around the stadium), and you will see that business drops off during game events.

Charlotte's economy didnt suddenly grow by any percentage points when we got a team. It was doing fine with or without any sports franchise.

Do pro sports make a city more desirable? Absolutely! Do I love pro sports? Absolutely again, but I just dont think we should pay out of our pockets to fund these projects when owners and athletes are making a killing.

Pete

Ill grant you that the residents don’t suddenly have more entertainment budget but you have to look at the whole picture.

See watch this:

Increased hotel rooms rented

Increased revenue from out of town visitors in restaurants

Increased revenue from out of town visitors in car rentals

Increased revenue from out of town visitors in local shops

Hundereds of jobs created for facility support staff

Oh and the 52 jobs that will have a combined salary of 120 million dollars that will flow into the local economy.

See it looks ALL GOOD from that angle....

[KendrickPanther]

I don't know about you guys but North Carolina state income taxes suck me dry. I can only imagine what it's like when you're make $350k-$18m a year. With revenue sharing you have to expect some of that money is coming from TV deals were Charlotte is on the lower end of contribution.

I agree with the shift in spending. That is in part what killed the Hornets. There is also a shift in people. Look at something like the population growth since 1995. Fans from other parts of the country travel to Charlotte to attend games. We are known as one of the nicest stadium to visit.

This is all kind of moot and silly because JR has largely asked for nothing from the Govt. I don't have a problem with NFL franchises asking for the money because they can. It's no different than when Charlotte courted Siemens. If they don't want step up the plate someone else will and that is capitalism.

[PiratePanther189]

I don't know about you guys but North Carolina state income taxes suck me dry. I can only imagine what it's like when you're make $350k-$18m a year. With revenue sharing you have to expect some of that money is coming from TV deals were Charlotte is on the lower end of contribution.

I agree with the shift in spending. That is in part what killed the Hornets. There is also a shift in people. Look at something like the population growth since 1995. Fans from other parts of the country travel to Charlotte to attend games. We are known as one of the nicest stadium to visit.

This is all kind of moot and silly because JR has largely asked for nothing from the Govt. I don't have a problem with NFL franchises asking for the money because they can. It's no different than when Charlotte courted Siemens. If they don't want step up the plate someone else will and that is capitalism.

Ain't that the damn TRUTH!! Geez...I'd own a much bigger house and a much nicer car....

[Nicbsbll2]

Ill grant you that the residents don’t suddenly have more entertainment budget but you have to look at the whole picture.

See watch this:

Increased hotel rooms rented

Increased revenue from out of town visitors in restaurants

Increased revenue from out of town visitors in car rentals

Increased revenue from out of town visitors in local shops

Hundereds of jobs created for facility support staff

Oh and the 52 jobs that will have a combined salary of 120 million dollars that will flow into the local economy.

See it looks ALL GOOD from that angle....

^^^Absolutely

[pstall]

i have study this stuff for years and Pete is right. There is a great blog on an economist who basically appears at hearings and junk debunking the "impact".

We can go in many directions on redirection of funds. Meaning, money that would have been spent elsewhere goes to a game. It's more chamber of commercy to have a new arena/stadium.

Do I love having an NFL team? Totally.

But not in the way some states and cities have gone about it. They have literally raped thier own citizens to get a sky box.

[pstall]

here ya go. one of my fav blogs. in fact, i thnk CNBC is doing a show on this next week.

http://thesportseconomist.com/