Of These 4 Draft Prospects Who Is Your Favorite?

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

1. Fletcher Cox (Fills a Need)

2. Quinton Coples (Fills a Need)

3. Stephen Gilmore (Fills a Need)

4. Michael Floyd (Is Friends with Pickles)

[bleys]

I'm not sure what all this has to do with why Hardy isn't any good, because Brown was traded up for and Brayton had been in the league for seeeveral years with major upside since he was playing out of position at Oakland.. Neither of those scenario's will ever warrant a 6th round pick starting in his 1st year...

1) the coaches aren't going to say "oops, we lost draft picks, but our 6th rounder should get 1st shot to prove himself".. and a 6th rounder isn't typically known for starting in their 1st year...

2) Brayton was a very athletic guy who played out of position in Oakland who had better technique than a 1st year 6th rounder..

are we really trying to convince ourselves about Hardy based on circumstances in his 1st year?

never mind Hardy was all over the field in his 2nd year having 11 passes defensed and nearly 17 QB hits with 4 sacks, 3rd in the league in tackles among 2nd year DLinemen (and a FF).....while having two 3rd round rookie DTs starting, which is a good cause for why he's getting blamed for his run support..

I don't buy it.. I'm not sure what people were watching, but I was highly satisfied with this 6th rounders play in his 2nd season...

any kind of BS people are trying to troll about DTs and DEs having a huge impact in their 2nd year, especially their 1st, is the height of this forum's lunacy... especially when Hardy has a stellar 2nd year...

[koolkatluke]

I'm not sure what all this has to do with why Hardy isn't any good, because Brown was traded up for and Brayton had been in the league for seeeveral years with major upside since he was playing out of position at Oakland.. Neither of those scenario's will ever warrant a 6th round pick starting in his 1st year...

Special with John Fox as the Coach.

[chubs2496]

I'm not sure what all this has to do with why Hardy isn't any good, because Brown was traded up for and Brayton had been in the league for seeeveral years with major upside since he was playing out of position at Oakland.. Neither of those scenario's will ever warrant a 6th round pick starting in his 1st year...

1) the coaches aren't going to say "oops, we lost draft picks, but our 6th rounder should get 1st shot to prove himself".. and a 6th rounder isn't typically known for starting in their 1st year...

2) Brayton was a very athletic guy who played out of position in Oakland who had better technique than a 1st year 6th rounder..

are we really trying to convince ourselves about Hardy based on circumstances in his 1st year?

never mind Hardy was all over the field in his 2nd year having 11 passes defensed and nearly 17 QB hits with 4 sacks, 3rd in the league in tackles among 2nd year DLinemen (and a FF).....while having two 3rd round rookie DTs starting, which is a good cause for why he's getting blamed for his run support..

I don't buy it.. I'm not sure what people were watching, but I was highly satisfied with this 6th rounders play in his 2nd season...

any kind of BS people are trying to troll about DTs and DEs having a huge impact in their 2nd year, nevermind their 1st is the height of this forum's lunacy... especially when Hardy has a stellar 2nd year...

Couldn't have said it any better

[pantherclaw]

Well everybody makes excuses for their player. Atleast the player I'm defending has an actual reason. And he still played very well. If we draft coples I will be fine. But I'm telling ya hardy is a good football player. I'd rather have him and Johnson. And personally I think hardy will be the better of the 2.

you're not telling me anything that I don't already know. I like Hardy. I love his motor. I love his potential.

That being said, he was not impressive last year.

He certainly can and should improve. I expect him to improve.

I love how I get honest about a player, and others make excuses fir him, then act like I don't like the player. Yeah, just ignore the fact I've expressed many times I like Hardy. lol

[panthers55]

I'm not sure what all this has to do with why Hardy isn't any good, because Brown was traded up for and Brayton had been in the league for seeeveral years with major upside since he was playing out of position at Oakland.. Neither of those scenario's will ever warrant a 6th round pick starting in his 1st year...

1) the coaches aren't going to say "oops, we lost draft picks, but our 6th rounder should get 1st shot to prove himself".. and a 6th rounder isn't typically known for starting in their 1st year...

2) Brayton was a very athletic guy who played out of position in Oakland who had better technique than a 1st year 6th rounder..

are we really trying to convince ourselves about Hardy based on circumstances in his 1st year?

never mind Hardy was all over the field in his 2nd year having 11 passes defensed and nearly 17 QB hits with 4 sacks, 3rd in the league in tackles among 2nd year DLinemen (and a FF).....while having two 3rd round rookie DTs starting, which is a good cause for why he's getting blamed for his run support..

I don't buy it.. I'm not sure what people were watching, but I was highly satisfied with this 6th rounders play in his 2nd season...

any kind of BS people are trying to troll about DTs and DEs having a huge impact in their 2nd year, especially their 1st, is the height of this forum's lunacy... especially when Hardy has a stellar 2nd year...

The fact that Rivera kept the six rounder and got rid of Brown shows me that decisions are made for other reasons than the round they were drafted. Also tell me how Gettis who was a sixth rounder starts 13 games his rookie year over Edwards who was a much higher pick. The old excuse that this guy gets playing time just because he was drafted higher is really crap. A higher draft position may get you on the squad and gives an advantage coming into the team, but once the games begin you have to win your position based on your on field production. Brayton had an awful 2010. He started 14 games and had a total of 22 tackles and no sacks. Anyone could have replaced him if they had played well. Sure Brayton would have started the year but surely Hardy could have overtaken him by midseason if he had shown the ability to be solid against the run. And I like Hardy. I have tried to find a jersey without going the customized route for 2 years. But he hasn't been as solid as he needs to be if he wants to start in this league. We need 2 edge rushers with double digit sacks not one.

But I will agree with you that this shouldn't be about Hardy regardless of who we draft. He is going to be here and he will have at least this year to prove he belongs, maybe longer. We need at least 3 or 4 quality edge rushers if we expect to be able to get a consistent pass rush and deal with any injuries that may come along. Bringing in another guy just gets us closer to our goal of having a good pass rush. The question at this point is simply whether to bring a DE, DT or both.

[bleys]

The fact that Rivera kept the six rounder and got rid of Brown shows me that decisions are made for other reasons than the round they were drafted. Also tell me how Gettis who was a sixth rounder starts 13 games his rookie year over Edwards who was a much higher pick. The old excuse that this guy gets playing time just because he was drafted higher is really crap. A higher draft position may get you on the squad and gives an advantage coming into the team, but once the games begin you have to win your position based on your on field production. Brayton had an awful 2010. He started 14 games and had a total of 22 tackles and no sacks. Anyone could have replaced him if they had played well. Sure Brayton would have started the year but surely Hardy could have overtaken him by midseason if he had shown the ability to be solid against the run. And I like Hardy. I have tried to find a jersey without going the customized route for 2 years. But he hasn't been as solid as he needs to be if he wants to start in this league. We need 2 edge rushers with double digit sacks not one.

But I will agree with you that this shouldn't be about Hardy regardless of who we draft. He is going to be here and he will have at least this year to prove he belongs, maybe longer. We need at least 3 or 4 quality edge rushers if we expect to be able to get a consistent pass rush and deal with any injuries that may come along. Bringing in another guy just gets us closer to our goal of having a good pass rush. The question at this point is simply whether to bring a DE, DT or both.

you're trying to say that Fox (John Fox) was EVER going to start Greg Hardy, who he drafted in the 6th, over a guy he traded up and put his job on the line for? (because that's the only reason we traded up....)

and then compare Armanti Edwards to Gettis when Fox was obviously out of the "friend's circle", a la starting Clausen over Moore, which seems to be another great example that Fox wasn't in control like he was in your Hardy example -vs- Gettis.. I think you're way off base trying to use those comparisons simply because they were 2 totally different situations..

Greg Hardy proved last year he deserves to be on the team and I'm sure he will again this season... I guess since we are only looking at sack #'s, Charles Johnson doesn't fit into your "10 sack a year" guy either...

And yes, outside of the Hardy discussion, I agree, a rotation of pass rushers is ideal..

[panthers55]

you're trying to say that Fox (John Fox) was EVER going to start Greg Hardy, who he drafted in the 6th, over a guy he traded up and put his job on the line for? (because that's the only reason we traded up....)

and then compare Armanti Edwards to Gettis when Fox was obviously out of the "friend's circle", a la starting Clausen over Moore, which seems to be another great example that Fox wasn't in control like he was in your Hardy example -vs- Gettis.. I think you're way off base trying to use those comparisons simply because they were 2 totally different situations..

Greg Hardy proved last year he deserves to be on the team and I'm sure he will again this season... I guess since we are only looking at sack #'s, Charles Johnson doesn't fit into your "10 sack a year" guy either...

And yes, outside of the Hardy discussion, I agree, a rotation of pass rushers is ideal..

Tell me how Fox had anything to do with Hardy playing or not in 2010 when he was a lame duck coach and was assured he was gone after the season. If he had followed his normal procedure then Clausen would have never seen the field and the veterans like Chris Harris would have still been on the team.

You are one that is trying to shape the facts to meet your suppositions not me. Gettis who is a rookie and sixth rounder starts over another guy who was a higher draft choice and that is not relevant. But the reason Hardy didn't start at all was because he was a lower draft pick compared to Brown. And if Clausen can come in as a rookie over Moore who was a veteran with plenty of experience when he struggled, it isn't analogous to the idea that Hardy could have come in and started over Brayton when he had a miserable season.

Yeah totally different......

Johnson and Hardy were both compromised by having to work way too hard to protect the inside and it did impact their ability to protect the outside and rush the passer. I suspect that if our interior had been more solid they would have had somewhat of a better season. Still Hardy has to have a much better year to keep a starting role. When Ruckers and Peppers were both here we expected double digit sacks from both of them. That is why I think Coples is the best choice. Either Hardy has a fire lighted under him and has that breakout season or Coples gets a shot. Maybe between the 2 of them we can get 10 sacks from the position this year. we could also move Johnson inside of passing downs and put Hardy and Coples on the edges. That would give us a pretty good pass rush.

[Soul Rebel]

1. Floyd

2. Cox

3. Couples

4. Gilmore

I'm not a fan of Gilmore and it seems like Hurney and Co. are looking for an immediate impact player. Couples is talented and will bring us a pass rusher if drafted, but I'm not a fan of him nor a DE at 9. Cox has emerged as the top DT and would be a tackle that would fit our scheme versus a NT or hybrid DE/DT. I wouldn't be mad if we take Cox and it's really close between he and Floyd for me. I know we have Smitty and 2 young WR's, but Floyd has a "it factor" about him that I like more than Blackmon. I think Gettis and Lafell are good compliments, but I think Floyd can be a Fitzgerald-type of #1 WR to pair with Cam. Honestly, it's more like 1A and 1B, because I like both of Floyd and Cox for different reasons.

[bleys]

Tell me how Fox had anything to do with Hardy playing or not in 2010 when he was a lame duck coach and was assured he was gone after the season. If he had followed his normal procedure then Clausen would have never seen the field and the veterans like Chris Harris would have still been on the team.

You are one that is trying to shape the facts to meet your suppositions not me. Gettis who is a rookie and sixth rounder starts over another guy who was a higher draft choice and that is not relevant. But the reason Hardy didn't start at all was because he was a lower draft pick compared to Brown. And if Clausen can come in as a rookie over Moore who was a veteran with plenty of experience when he struggled, it isn't analogous to the idea that Hardy could have come in and started over Brayton when he had a miserable season.

Yeah totally different......

Johnson and Hardy were both compromised by having to work way too hard to protect the inside and it did impact their ability to protect the outside and rush the passer. I suspect that if our interior had been more solid they would have had somewhat of a better season. Still Hardy has to have a much better year to keep a starting role. When Ruckers and Peppers were both here we expected double digit sacks from both of them. That is why I think Coples is the best choice. Either Hardy has a fire lighted under him and has that breakout season or Coples gets a shot. Maybe between the 2 of them we can get 10 sacks from the position this year. we could also move Johnson inside of passing downs and put Hardy and Coples on the edges. That would give us a pretty good pass rush.

Actually you are right.. it's evident Hardy wasn't ready in his 1st year at DE like Gettis was at WR..

more to come... (dun, dun... dunnnnnn)

[pantherclaw]

Amazes me how many fans are happy with a lack luster pass rush.

[bleys]

Since 2008...

No DL not named Suh posted 10+ sacks in their 1st season..

No DL not named JPP posted 10+ sacks in their 2nd season.. (Carlos Dunlap only other with 9.5)

No DL not named Mario Williams ever posted 10+ sacks in their 3rd season...

Only 6 DL have posted 9+ sacks in their 4th season...

Hardy gave us 50 combined tackles (3rd most for sophmores) and 38 solo (2nd for sophmores), 17 QB pressures, 4 sacks, 11 passes defended, 1 FF..

I do agree.. Hardy needs to be more consistent and learn how to finish plays, but I find it extremely hard to believe people aren't excited for this kid's future and believe he's a lackluster pass rusher...

But then again, there are fools out there who think Fua and McClain are washed up after their 1st year as 3rd round DTs... I guess in the end this should be expected..

[pantherclaw]

Love Hardy, but he has to step up, or be replaced.

Even if he stepped up, Johnson, Hardy, and Coples would give the Panthers a lot of pass rush with a lot of defensive flexibility.

[chubs2496]

Since 2008...

No DL not named Suh posted 10+ sacks in their 1st season..

No DL not named JPP posted 10+ sacks in their 2nd season.. (Carlos Dunlap only other with 9.5)

No DL not named Mario Williams ever posted 10+ sacks in their 3rd season...

Only 6 DL have posted 9+ sacks in their 4th season...

Hardy gave us 50 combined tackles (3rd most for sophmores) and 38 solo (2nd for sophmores), 17 QB pressures, 4 sacks, 11 passes defended, 1 FF..

I do agree.. Hardy needs to be more consistent and learn how to finish plays, but I find it extremely hard to believe people aren't excited for this kid's future and believe he's a lackluster pass rusher...

But then again, there are fools out there who think Fua and McClain are washed up after their 1st year as 3rd round DTs... I guess in the end this should be expected..

Hardy will be a stud. He has the size and speed. He's on of my favorite panthers. I think he's ginna be a true playmaker. But yeah I'd he consistently play better and gets more sacks people will love him more than cj