Josh Norris Not A Fan Of Luke Kuechly

[Snake]

If I was a fanboy I would want Luke as the pick regardless. I don't.

Acknowledging Luke could be BPA on D at 9 basedon a draft unfolding is reality...... Why you feel the need to argue that is just silly

Because there are 3 positions that they will draft before LB that are BPA. Its kinda like saying well if no one is left and Trent Richardson is there he is BPA. If we were picking 20 or lower I would agree that he would be worth the risk but not at 9. Way too many impact players in more need places.

[mav1234]

it isn't like saying "if richardson is there, take him" because LB is actually a need. as I said, there are a number of positions which I think one could legitimately claim as needs. LB is one of those positions. It is possible Kuechley is the BPA that fills a need at #9.

[unicar15]

So why would we not want to draft Kuechly who will start at LB if Davis gets hurt when Cox is likely to sit on the sidelines as well and isn't assured of starting at all. His five sacks in 16 games doesn't hold a candle to Cherry's 2 1/2 sacks in no starts and 4 game appearances or Neblett's 2 sacks in 4 starts. Truth is he might be 3rd on the depth chart. You guys get way too excited about a draft pick who needs time to develop particularly a junior in college.

Fletcher Cox isn't my favorite player but he was an example of a player who could beat out a current starter for a position (even if that is the 3rd DT spot in the rotation). Whereas, we are essentially counting on TD to get hurt in order to play Keuchly. If that is the case then let TD walk and draft Keuchly...I'm fine with that if TD isn't ready to go. But don't sign TD to a new offer (or extend him) and then draft the exact same position with a top 10 pick.

I'm not expecting ANYONE that we draft to come in and be a complete starter from day 1 (unless a guy like Claiborne falls to us) but I am expecting the 1st rounder to come in and COMPETE for a starting spot and Keuchly isn't beating out TD, Beason, or James Anderson for a starting spot unless one of them gets hurt....just isn't happening.

We aren't drafting Luke Keuchly...its just not happening unless Hurney knows something about TD that we don't. The smart decision would be to find a trade partner and move down and take a guy like Gilmore, Brockers, Cox, Poe, or Coples. Let someone else move up and take Keuchly if they want him. But this team DOES NOT NEED HIM and it would be a waste of great position and a chance to upgrade the pass rush or secondary.

[kdrh5]

I don't think he will turn out a bad player, but he is strangely similar to Aaron Curry in the fact that he seems to have ideal measurables, made a ton of tackles in college, and is looked at as a top-5 football player in the draft despite playing a position in which success can be attributed to scheme and never being asked to rush the passer. He also invokes memories of AJ Hawk since he's totally overhyped and there are comporable players to be had later in the draft that wont cost us a first round pick, like Nigel Bradham or Keenan Robinson.

I really hope we dont draft him at 9. He's probably going to be another Chad Greenway, which is good, but you can shake a tree and find good OGs, RBs, and LBs, and we need other positions more--mainly corner and pass rushers.

[kdrh5]

And honestly if we're speaking in terms of who will be the BPA "by the time we pick", Mark Barron might make more sense

[Panthro]

He is the Danny Wuerffel of linebacking

[panthers55]

Fletcher Cox isn't my favorite player but he was an example of a player who could beat out a current starter for a position (even if that is the 3rd DT spot in the rotation). Whereas, we are essentially counting on TD to get hurt in order to play Keuchly. If that is the case then let TD walk and draft Keuchly...I'm fine with that if TD isn't ready to go. But don't sign TD to a new offer (or extend him) and then draft the exact same position with a top 10 pick.

I'm not expecting ANYONE that we draft to come in and be a complete starter from day 1 (unless a guy like Claiborne falls to us) but I am expecting the 1st rounder to come in and COMPETE for a starting spot and Keuchly isn't beating out TD, Beason, or James Anderson for a starting spot unless one of them gets hurt....just isn't happening.

We aren't drafting Luke Keuchly...its just not happening unless Hurney knows something about TD that we don't. The smart decision would be to find a trade partner and move down and take a guy like Gilmore, Brockers, Cox, Poe, or Coples. Let someone else move up and take Keuchly if they want him. But this team DOES NOT NEED HIM and it would be a waste of great position and a chance to upgrade the pass rush or secondary.

My point is that we have the likelihood that Davis will struggle. All of the research over the last 10 years on achilles injuries suggests that it takes 2 years at least for a player to come all the way back and that linebackers are more affected than any other position on the field. Add that a Mike linebacker has to be the most explosive and cover the most ground of any of them in a 4-3 and you have a need for sure. Meanwhile we drafted a 3 technique guy 1 slot out of the second round last year and brought in a ton of guys due to injuries. Cox will challenge for a starting job but frankly I don't think DT is a position of need, DE and LB are though.

I don't think we are drafting Cox either so now what???

[panthers55]

He is the Danny Wuerffel of linebacking

And Cox is the Derrick Harvey of DTs.

[Snake]

No he isn't at all. His numbers are pedestrian and his measurables are not that great either. Kuechly for his position has much greater production and better measurables. If this draft were about the best player Kuechly would be top 5. The only reason he is projected lower is because his position in a 4-3 is not valued as much as a quarterback or a DE/DT or corner. And that is based on the salary to obtain a top one not based on value to a team.

His numbers are comparable to Darrius that went 2nd over all last year and Cox can play both 4-3 DT and 3-4 DE. Im not going to try to compare a DT to a LB because its apples to oranges but there is a reason that 4-3 LBs/RBs are a dime a dozen and DE/DTs are not.

[Panthro]

And Cox is the Derrick Harvey of DTs.

You are the Matt Millen of draft evaluations

[panthers55]

I don't think he will turn out a bad player, but he is strangely similar to Aaron Curry in the fact that he seems to have ideal measurables, made a ton of tackles in college, and is looked at as a top-5 football player in the draft despite playing a position in which success can be attributed to scheme and never being asked to rush the passer. He also invokes memories of AJ Hawk since he's totally overhyped and there are comporable players to be had later in the draft that wont cost us a first round pick, like Nigel Bradham or Keenan Robinson.

I really hope we dont draft him at 9. He's probably going to be another Chad Greenway, which is good, but you can shake a tree and find good OGs, RBs, and LBs, and we need other positions more--mainly corner and pass rushers.

Cox is strangely like Sedrick Ellis except Ellis came back for his senior year. Can't miss top 10 pick who won tons of awards. In fact Ellis had better numbers than Cox. So how did that work out so far?????

Busts at DT in the first round are twice as likely than at linebacker.

[panthers55]

You are the Matt Millen of draft evaluations

And you are the Don Rickles of message board posters.

[panthers55]

His numbers are comparable to Darrius that went 2nd over all last year and Cox can play both 4-3 DT and 3-4 DE. Im not going to try to compare a DT to a LB because its apples to oranges but there is a reason that 4-3 LBs/RBs are a dime a dozen and DE/DTs are not.

Comparable to Sedrick Ellis of a few years back. How is that working out??? It isn't dime a dozen so much as boom or bust. Kuechly is considered the safest pick in the draft on defense by many. Cox is not.

[mav1234]

no offense to Cox, but he is not Dareus - stats only tell you so much. I like Cox but I am not sure if he is the best defensive player at that spot. I think I would rather have him than Kuechley, but who knows, maybe Cox is gone by then. There are three or four prospects that I think will be available that I feel are all quality players that would greatly improve this defense, so we'll see.