Brockers Vs Cox

[koolkatluke]

Many mocks have us taking Cox but I think it'll be Brockers. I think people are just hyping Cox up. Everyone has their turn to be hype, and it's Cox's turn. Brockers' was in the beginning, Poe's after the combine and now it's Cox bc he's a safer pick. If Brockers can translate his performance into the pros, Brockers will be the best DT in this year draft.

My rank:

Brockers

Worthy

Cox

Poe

Still

Thompson

And remember Brockers was the first player we brought in for a visit, talked with at the combine, went to his pro day, and spent plenty of times with him.

Cox must have slept with your mom or something. You have him behind Worthy??

But no what happen was Cox killed it at the combine like Poe. Then people started watching game tape and notice all that college production. Cox rises and stays at the top.

[pantherj]

Brockers - Would play the 3-tech UT in our defense. If I were choosing a UT at 9, there is no chance in hell I would take Brockers. His pass rushing ability is poor for a potential first rounder from what I've seen, and playing him at NT is not an option. He would get destroyed. The idea with Brockers is to develope his pass rushing moves over time, and in the mean time you have a guy who is good against the run from the UT position.

Worthy - Here is a guy who I really admire. He is tough as hell. We could play him as our 1-tech NT, or 3-tech UT, and either way I think he would hold up just fine. He can hold his ground against a double team as our NT, or we can move him over to UT, and he should have enough pass rushing ability to generate pressure consistantly. Now he's not going to be great at either position, but he will be good at both imo.

Cox - This forum seems to love Cox, and also the DT from Mississippi State. Would play the 3-tech UT for us obviously. Cox loves to bull rush, but if you watch his bull rush almost always stalls out long before he can really pressure the QB. The o-lineman just gives some ground and stands him up. He'll need to rely more on his quickness in the NFL, but the thing is he's not blazzing fast. Also I don't think he'll be good against the run at the NFL level unless he really adds some serious weight.

Poe - This guy is so odd to me. I don't think he could generate any kind of pass rush from either DT position, yet line him up at DE and he can bull rush and sack or scare the crap out of the QB. So strange. We would play him at NT, and maybe in his second or thrid season he would start to anchor down and become a good run stuffer. The worst thing we could do is try to play him at UT. Nightmare. I'm talking knocked on the ground on all pass plays.

Still - Slower than x-mas, but I guess we would play him at UT. No, I can't imagine we draft this guy at all. I would rather have any of the other linemen in this post. I hope to goodness we don't draft this guy. I hate his pass rushing moves, yikes. He sort of has a bulll rush, but even that isn't much.

These are just my random thoughts from watching these guys play. I think we're either drafting Coples or Dre at 9, they are both worthy picks imo.

[pantherj]

Maybe something like:

9th - Dre Kirkpatrick

40th - Jerel Worthy

[Catalyst]

Cox is by FAR the better player when compared to Brockers. I've never understood the Brockers love. He's an empty uniform; looks the part, but doesn't have the tape to back up the hype, IMO.

The more I watch on Cox the more I like him. He's aggressive, can play the run well and rush the passer, and has a good motor, which is something a lot of DT's don't have.

[jarhead]

Just finished Michael Brockers vs Georgia in the SEC championship game. I officially have a late 1st to high 2nd round grade on Brockers. I see great ability against the run, but marginal pass rush upside. He is a bit of a project in the pass rush department. Brockers has a wide variety of pass rush moves, including a bull, club, spin, swim, and rip, but most aren't very effective. His bull rush is great, but I don't see it being as effective until he gains strength.. he only had 19 reps at pro day. You don't draft NT's in the Top10 for their run defense. He is definitely a NT in our scheme.. I don't see him playing a 3-tech.

42 Total Defensive Snaps

17 Total Impact plays, including 5 in a row in the 4th Qtr

12 Plays He was double teamed

He got 5 TFL (Tackles for Loss)

8 hurries.

Forced a Fumble

Caused 1 Interception.

1 Tech Impact plays= 16/39 Plays

3 Tech Impact plays= 0/1 Plays

5 Tech Impact plays= 1/2 Plays

Brockers has great stamina. He seems to get better as the game goes on. It seems like he is average at the beginning of games.. maybe letting his opponent get tired before bringing his A game. His run defense is Excellent 1v1 at the point of attack. He is very good against double teams, but when he displays poor pad level, he will get driven out of the play. He gave up 2 big gains in his gap due to being driven out of the play. He showed very good play awareness

.. probably due to his height.. he can see the play develop. Bottom line for me, is run stuffing NT's are easier to find than a quality 3-tech that can penetrate. I believe scouts/GMs feel the same. Brockers played like a 'streaky' player. He had poor streaks, and productive streaks.

I must say that I am very impressed with Ben Jones, the Center from Georgia. He looks like a 2nd round pick. He stoned Brockers on just about every play that he was assigned.

Fletcher Cox vs Kentucky coming up next.

To me Cox looks more impressive coming out but I see more upside in Brockers.Is that a fair statement? Brokers has a lot of room to add some muscle.

[nagai]

To me Cox looks more impressive coming out but I see more upside in Brockers.Is that a fair statement? Brokers has a lot of room to add some muscle.

I'm not Lout but I did a lot of research on the DT's too! I'll try and answer this.

I disagree with you. Brockers isn't half as fast as people make him out to be, nor do I think this will improve with time. His arms can certainly get stronger, but he'll never be great against the pass. Cox on the other hand can add on another 10-15 pounds and get better against the run. I think Cox has the higher ceiling because he can be dominant on all 3 downs (at least eventually), but I can't say that about Brock.

[jarhead]

The 3-tech would make the most sense. Jimmy's defense is about creating pressure on the QB. We don't have a DT who can do that consistently, and they are rare in the league. Cox is a very rare prospect with his insane burst.

If Rivera is true to his word then we will probably be taking Cox then.I think the risk is too high for Couples.

[jarhead]

I'm not Lout but I did a lot of research on the DT's too! I'll try and answer this.

I disagree with you. Brockers isn't half as fast as people make him out to be, nor do I think this will improve with time. His arms can certainly get stronger, but he'll never be great against the pass. Cox on the other hand can add on another 10-15 pounds and get better against the run. I think Cox has the higher ceiling because he can be dominant on all 3 downs (at least eventually), but I can't say that about Brock.

Then we should pick Cox

[Lout]

I'm not Lout but I did a lot of research on the DT's too! I'll try and answer this.

I disagree with you. Brockers isn't half as fast as people make him out to be, nor do I think this will improve with time. His arms can certainly get stronger, but he'll never be great against the pass. Cox on the other hand can add on another 10-15 pounds and get better against the run. I think Cox has the higher ceiling because he can be dominant on all 3 downs (at least eventually), but I can't say that about Brock.

I will re-iterate everying nagai said, and I will add.. Brockers reminds me of John Henderson.. he will get you 2-3 sacks a year, but his value is against the run taking up double teams. He is not quick enough to play the 3-tech. Due to his lack of speed, he is very limited for potential pass rush. Cox has the burst you need, quickness, strength (he did 30 reps at combine compared to Brockers 19 reps) to be an Elite 3-tech in the league. My one critism of Cox might be that he doesn't use his strength to his utmost advantage and potential.. but this can be taught with coaching. Brockers on the other hand, uses every ounce of his strength. He will need to hit the weight room to be as effective as he was in college.

[carolina-chuck]

Cox must have slept with your mom or something. You have him behind Worthy??

But no what happen was Cox killed it at the combine like Poe. Then people started watching game tape and notice all that college production. Cox rises and stays at the top.

Shut the h3ll up already dumba$$.

A grown a$$ man whos trying act bada$$ on the forum.

Bet your a$$ is overweight just like your mouth.

Dont be acting tough on here when in reality, you're a piece of crap.

Everyone has their own opinion. You don't like it, suck it up big guy. This world isn't just you on it. Its not like you're by yourself, acting big and bad living in your momma's basement.

[bigdog10]

If the panthers take a DT in the first, i'm hoping it is Cox. I've watched a couple of his highlight tapes and he seems to be very disruptive on the d-line.

I don't necessarily see up investing a first in DT (being that we spent two early ones on Fua and McClain last year) however if we do, I hope it is Cox.

He instantly upgrades our Pass Rush and Run Defense.

Johnson, Cox, Edwards, Hardy (Edwards makes up for Hardy's lack of Run stopping ability). Then Rotate in McClain and Shirley on passing downs for Edwards and we have the makings of a solid line).

Applewhite and Kesier as well.

[jarhead]

Good discussion and I have learned quite a bit. Do you think Couples is an option or will we go DT?

[Lout]

Good discussion and I have learned quite a bit. Do you think Couples is an option or will we go DT?

To be honest, I have only watched Coples play in one game.. and then again in the Senior Bowl. From what I hear, Coples stock is dropping.. so if that's true, I don't think he is a realistic option for us at #9.. unless we trade down. If we stay put at #9, I strongly believe the pick will be Fletcher Cox. Either way, I think we want to improve the Dline.. and I believe that's our top priority.

[jarhead]

To be honest, I have only watched Coples play in one game.. and then again in the Senior Bowl. From what I hear, Coples stock is dropping.. so if that's true, I don't think he is a realistic option for us at #9.. unless we trade down. If we stay put at #9, I strongly believe the pick will be Fletcher Cox. Either way, I think we want to improve the Dline.. and I believe that's our top priority.

I would be happy with that .My understanding is in the Jimmy Johnson scheme the DL maintains gap control and the blitz comes from the lb or dbs.Our DL failed miserably at that last year.