It Is Going To Be Fletcher Cox.......

[Ken]

Cox is a reach at #9 but Kuechly isn't...smh

At least Cox plays an impact position. A 4-3 LB at #9 is terrible value unless he's damn near revolutionizing the position, which Kuechly is not even close to.

Its a "reach" because Kuechly is a better more NFL ready than Cox.

[Ivan The Awesome]

I'll pretty much trust whoever he picks as long as it's not Poe or and offensive linemen that we reach for lol. I may even trust him 100% with Coples, but not 100% sure on that yet.

If they pick Poe, I'll have to swallow my pride and ride with Poe. I don't want him here, he's too much of a project. Of course I said this about Cam last year and I ate crow. I'll happily eat crow again if they pick Poe and he pans out. But really I wouldn't put so much pressure on Poe. He's not Cam and he won't be making an Immediate Impact either. At least that's what I believe. Again, I could be wrong and I'll eat crow AGAIN for that if he does. I kinda want to eat crow now if we do pick Poe...

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

McClain isn't "very good" and wouldn't start ahead of beason, neither would mayo although I agree mayo is a good LB

McClain had darn near 100 tackles in 15 games last year and McClain can also play OLB as he has a few times before. Mayo was also just shy of 100 tackles in 14 games and Mayo plays in a 3-4 defense so I don't really know why his name was brought up.

But yeah you are right neither of them would start over Beason.

But I don't want to draft Kuechly to start over Beason. I want him to start beside Beason in case Thomas Davis can't come back from another ACL injury. He is fast enough to play OLB and could keep up with any tight end in my opinion. He also gives us an insurance option just in case Beason struggles with his comeback.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

If they pick Poe, I'll have to swallow my pride and ride with Poe. I don't want him here, he's too much of a project. Of course I said this about Cam last year and I ate crow. I'll happily eat crow again if they pick Poe and he pans out. But really I wouldn't put so much pressure on Poe. He's not Cam and he won't be making an Immediate Impact either. At least that's what I believe. Again, I could be wrong and I'll eat crow AGAIN for that if he does. I kinda want to eat crow now if we do pick Poe...

I talked to Juan Taylor the wide receivers coach at my college who was on staff at Memphis last year and he said that Poe always practiced well but when it came to games he disappeared.

[koolkatluke]

Its a "reach" because Kuechly is a better more NFL ready than Cox.

Again do you have facts that say Cox isn't ready to start day one?

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Again do you have facts that say Cox isn't ready to start day one?

Cox would have to start day one because McClain sure as hell can't and Fua didn't really show anything to be proud of either.

[JawnyBlaze]

If we drafted McClain or Mayo with a top 10 pick, even knowing for certain in advance they'd be the players they are now, it would be poor value. The standard for a top 10 pick shouldn't be "would they start on this team". If that were the case, we could spend our #9 on any of the first 20 CBs in this draft it would apparently be a good value. In my opinion a top 10 pick should be on the best player at an impact position of need if possible. There are a few of those who could likely be available when we pick. If the first 8 picks were Kalil, Claiborne, Brockers, Poe, Cox, Coples, Blackmon and Floyd and there's absolutely no best player at an impact position of need then I suppose I'd settle for Kuechly. But each of those positions (with the only possible arguable one being WR) is MUCH higher impact than 4-3 LB. Even if all of them except Kalil, Claiborne, Blackmon and Coples aren't technically as good at their position as Kuechly is (which I'd concede is the case) they still player a higher impact position. Kuechly isn't some once in a generation LB, he's just the best in this year's draft, which is relatively weak for 4-3 LB. The only other one that's even been considered in the 1st was Zach Brown and these days it's looking like he could be available with our 2nd round pick. I'd MUCH rather have Brown in the 2nd than Kuechly at #9. It's just not an impact position, same reason you don't draft RB or G or S or P or K or LS in the top 10 usually. Richardson is a borderline generational RB, so he's getting consideration. Decastro is borderline generational G, so he's getting consideration. Kuechly isn't as good a LB as those two are at their positions.

I'm sure he'll be a wonderful LB and would start for us Day 1, but our team would be better picking a higher impact position. Same reason we picked Cam last year instead of AJ Green. AJ Green was considered to be a better WR prospect than Cam was at QB, but QB is a more impactful position. We just got lucky that Cam actually turned into a better QB than any of the other guys who were considered at the time to be better prospects at their positions than Cam was.

It's fairly common knowledge that some positions carry more of a premium than others, especially when talking about draft position. 4-3 LB (whether you consider him a backup MLB for us or an OLB) simply is not a good enough value at #9.

[The Special One]

Cox is getting overshadowed by Poe and Brockers but he's probably the most cpmplete DT in this year's draft. That being said, any DT chosen in the 1st 10 picks would be a reach.

[JawnyBlaze]

Mayo plays in a 3-4 defense so I don't really know why his name was brought up.

I brought Mayo up because he's a non pass rushing LB drafted in the top 10 that wasn't worth his pick. I think "non pass rushing LB" is a little more accurate for me to use for my case because the "non impact LB" isn't exactly just all 4-3 LBs, because Von Miller is a pass rushing 4-3 LB and ILBs in a 3-4 fit the bill too.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

If we drafted McClain or Mayo with a top 10 pick, even knowing for certain in advance they'd be the players they are now, it would be poor value. The standard for a top 10 pick shouldn't be "would they start on this team". If that were the case, we could spend our #9 on any of the first 20 CBs in this draft it would apparently be a good value. In my opinion a top 10 pick should be on the best player at an impact position of need if possible. There are a few of those who could likely be available when we pick. If the first 8 picks were Kalil, Claiborne, Brockers, Poe, Cox, Coples, Blackmon and Floyd and there's absolutely no best player at an impact position of need then I suppose I'd settle for Kuechly. But each of those positions (with the only possible arguable one being WR) is MUCH higher impact than 4-3 LB. Even if all of them except Kalil, Claiborne, Blackmon and Coples aren't technically as good at their position as Kuechly is (which I'd concede is the case) they still player a higher impact position. Kuechly isn't some once in a generation LB, he's just the best in this year's draft, which is relatively weak for 4-3 LB. The only other one that's even been considered in the 1st was Zach Brown and these days it's looking like he could be available with our 2nd round pick. I'd MUCH rather have Brown in the 2nd than Kuechly at #9. It's just not an impact position, same reason you don't draft RB or G or S or P or K or LS in the top 10 usually. Richardson is a borderline generational RB, so he's getting consideration. Decastro is borderline generational G, so he's getting consideration. Kuechly isn't as good a LB as those two are at their positions.

I'm sure he'll be a wonderful LB and would start for us Day 1, but our team would be better picking a higher impact position. Same reason we picked Cam last year instead of AJ Green. AJ Green was considered to be a better WR prospect than Cam was at QB, but QB is a more impactful position. We just got lucky that Cam actually turned into a better QB than any of the other guys who were considered at the time to be better prospects at their positions than Cam was.

It's fairly common knowledge that some positions carry more of a premium than others, especially when talking about draft position. 4-3 LB (whether you consider him a backup MLB for us or an OLB) simply is not a good enough value at #9.

Some positions do carry more weight but sometimes need out grades value and sometimes value out grades need. In this particular scenario Rivera may feel locked in to taking Kuechly because of injuries to the linebacker corp last year and our overall lack of supreme depth at that position.

I know defensive tackle is a huge need but we might be able to still get a quality defensive tackle in the second round in Worthy, Thompson or Still if we go Kuechly in the first.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

I brought Mayo up because he's a non pass rushing LB drafted in the top 10 that wasn't worth his pick. I think "non pass rushing LB" is a little more accurate for me to use for my case because the "non impact LB" isn't exactly just all 4-3 LBs, because Von Miller is a pass rushing 4-3 LB and ILBs in a 3-4 fit the bill too.

Ah alright, I feel ya.

[KendrickPanther]

uh..either your comprehension is lacking or you're grasping. Obviously we run a 4-3...4-3 LBs aren't good value in the first half of the first round. I posted the recent history in another thread of the past 7 drafts and the ONLY LB drafted by a 4-3 in the top 10 that was even close to worth his draft spot was Von Miller and he's a pass rusher. They play a 4-3 but use him like a 3-4 rush LB. Of the non pass rushing LBs taken in the top 10 there were three players (Rolando McClain, Jarod Mayo and AJ Hawk) that are good but not good enough for top 10 and EVERY single other one could be considered a bust.

Simply put, a non pass rushing LB (which pretty much every LB in a 4-3 is except Von Miller) is not worth a top 10 pick.

It's fun and all to read off a bunch of names and try to create a pattern but its false logic. Luke Kuechly has nothing to do with AJ Hawk, Aaron Curry, or Patrick Willis for that matter. He is a unique person and you evaluate him as such. By your false logic we shouldn't have drafted Cam no.1 because Mike Vick went to jail. Or because Jamarcus liked that purple drank. Throw in a white guy, you don't draft Cam because of David Carr. They have nothing to do with one another.

[koolkatluke]

Cox is getting overshadowed by Poe and Brockers but he's probably the most cpmplete DT in this year's draft. That being said, any DT chosen in the 1st 10 picks would be a reach.

I still don't understand why Cox is a reach.

[JawnyBlaze]

It's fun and all to read off a bunch of names and try to create a pattern but its false logic. Luke Kuechly has nothing to do with AJ Hawk, Aaron Curry, or Patrick Willis for that matter. He is a unique person and you evaluate him as such. By your false logic we shouldn't have drafted Cam no.1 because Mike Vick went to jail. Or because Jamarcus liked that purple drank. Throw in a white guy, you don't draft Cam because of David Carr. They have nothing to do with one another.

ok with you it's DEFINITELY a lack of comprehension... my argument against Kuechly has everything to do with those guys because my argument against Kuechly isn't about him as a player, it's the position he plays.