It Is Going To Be Fletcher Cox.......

[Lout]

It doesn't matter what the talking heads think about a player. And because a guy moves up on Mayock's board or Kiper's board has nothing to do with how the team's scouts and GMs see him. How many people rated Newton the best QB in the draft?? Did Hurney and Rivera care?? Do you think what they say about Cox matters either?? NFL teams do a lot more work than any draftnik does finding out about the players they are interested in. There jobs depend on it. Guys like Kiper will be here next year whether they are right or wrong on all their picks this year. GMs may not have the same luxury.

If the Panthers pick Cox it won't have anything to do with the facts the draftniks like him or not.

Mayock has been revered as a Gm candidate for a few teams in the past few years.. all of which he has turned down. Lombardi was a GM, and several ex-head coaches all have an opinion on these guys. We aren't just talking about 'draftniks'. These are guys that are qualified to grade players, and have done it in the NFL for years. All big boards are different, but you are going to find most of them very similar throughout the league.

[XClown1986]

Seems to me that bringing up a scouting board as evidence that if we draft a DT it will be Cox implies that our FO opinion will be in line with this analysis. Either you must think that either Hurney agrees with this analysis or that this analysis represents the majority opinion of most scouts. I am just pointing out that this analysis is just one guys opinion and that Hurney likely didn't even read it let alone give it any credence. If you know that this analysis is irrelevant to our FO opinion then why post it as evidence that if we pick a DT it will be Cox then.

And if it isn't all that serious then why are you overreacting like you are butt hurt??

It was just an observation. Perhaps it seemed that public opinion was changing about him. Not necessarily in line with Hurney and Rivera. I just thought it was something that others here looking at Fletcher Cox as a guy they want or don't want, would want to know. They don't have to take it to heart, in fact I encourage taking it at face value, but it was just a little tidbit of information.

I'm reacting because you have an arrogance about your posts that doesn't sit well with me from time to time. I know enough about this team and about how the draft works to not need you dipping your condescending thoughts into a simple post.

[panthers55]

Mayock has been revered as a Gm candidate for a few teams in the past few years.. all of which he has turned down. Lombardi was a GM, and several ex-head coaches all have an opinion on these guys. We aren't just talking about 'draftniks'. These are guys that are qualified to grade players, and have done it in the NFL for years. All big boards are different, but you are going to find most of them very similar throughout the league.

Mayock, for example, picks his evaluation of the best DTs based on a sense of what he values and how he sees them fitting compared to the others he evaluates. That doesn't necessarily relate to how a GM will evaluate a player based on his particular needs which may be different. Newton is a perfect example of a guy that Mayock didn't have evaluated very high of whom we obviously though highly. Was he wrong or did he simply place too much value on specific criteria perhaps what you would call the protypical pocket passer where we saw what he could be come and valued his athleticism more.

So for example someone might say Cox is the best DT in general but that might not translate to what we want if we most highly value a DT who can also play outside and can rush the passer. A 3-4 team might want a DT who is best playing read and react and can take on double teams like a DE in a 3-4. They might have a totally different draft board based on what they want. Sure one guy's best player is not likely to be another's 3rd rounder, but it isn't as clear cut as you make it appear.

[Mage]

Lombardi was a GM

And he sucked.

[panthers55]

It was just an observation. Perhaps it seemed that public opinion was changing about him. Not necessarily in line with Hurney and Rivera. I just thought it was something that others here looking at Fletcher Cox as a guy they want or don't want, would want to know. They don't have to take it to heart, in fact I encourage taking it at face value, but it was just a little tidbit of information.

I'm reacting because you have an arrogance about your posts that doesn't sit well with me from time to time. I know enough about this team and about how the draft works to not need you dipping your condescending thoughts into a simple post.

You are welcome to your opinion but honestly I don't care whether you like my posts or not. Most folks who find they can't keep up end up using the condescending comment because they have little else. It always come down to personal attacks when they can't win with logic and facts.

Maybe I should dumb it down so I fit in better....

Now that is a condescending remark, LOL.

[panthers55]

delete please

[TheGreatestOfAllTimeCam]

daddy draftnik says it will not be Fletcher cox

[nagai]

I'm running out of reasons to not draft this guy. He doesn't have an elite first step but it's still pretty good. We all know how athletic he is and though he doesn't have great bulk or lower body strength, it is adequate and he can make some plays against the run. His arms are long and strong, which makes it easier for him to shed blocks. He's scheme diverse and can play on every play in Rivera's defence. Last but not least, have you guys seen the motor on this guy? Crikey fug, this guy never gives up on a play. High floor and decently high ceiling, make it happen Hurney.

[DaCityKats]

another plus with Cox is he doesnt turn 22 until the end of the year.a lot of growing still going on with that body and he was voted SEC DL of the week 4x. thats talent boys.

[MadHatter]

Given our needs, there are legitimately 5-6 players that are real possibilities....Kuechly, Coples, Cox, etc

Given the eval that our staff is doing and their homeric on their eval on Cam, I am confident that whoever they take will be a big asset

[csx]

And he sucked.

He was a scout and personnel guy for 23 years for some good teams. He worked directly under Bill Walsh. He was with the Raiders when they were actually good. Maybe you should actually take a look at his resume.

At the worst he knows ten thousand times more about personnel and scouting than anyone who has ever even heard of this forum.

[Lout]

Mayock, for example, picks his evaluation of the best DTs based on a sense of what he values and how he sees them fitting compared to the others he evaluates. That doesn't necessarily relate to how a GM will evaluate a player based on his particular needs which may be different. Newton is a perfect example of a guy that Mayock didn't have evaluated very high of whom we obviously though highly. Was he wrong or did he simply place too much value on specific criteria perhaps what you would call the protypical pocket passer where we saw what he could be come and valued his athleticism more.

So for example someone might say Cox is the best DT in general but that might not translate to what we want if we most highly value a DT who can also play outside and can rush the passer. A 3-4 team might want a DT who is best playing read and react and can take on double teams like a DE in a 3-4. They might have a totally different draft board based on what they want. Sure one guy's best player is not likely to be another's 3rd rounder, but it isn't as clear cut as you make it appear.

Every player does not fit every system, I know that. These analysts big boards don't take that into account, they simply rank the players individually as football players, not subject to scheme. The Carolina Panthers won't even have certain players on their board, I understand that. So each team's board will correlate to their needs and scheme. We both know these things, but that's not my point.

My point is, there is no 'right answer' to a big board. Mayock's guess is just a credible as any GM in the NFL.. you seem to discredit these so-called draftniks, where you really shouldn't be. These are very credible, experts in their field, who have done this job before. Just as well as the average GM in the league now.

[Lout]

I'm running out of reasons to not draft this guy. He doesn't have an elite first step but it's still pretty good. We all know how athletic he is and though he doesn't have great bulk or lower body strength, it is adequate and he can make some plays against the run. His arms are long and strong, which makes it easier for him to shed blocks. He's scheme diverse and can play on every play in Rivera's defence. Last but not least, have you guys seen the motor on this guy? Crikey fug, this guy never gives up on a play. High floor and decently high ceiling, make it happen Hurney.

His first step is considered elite. His 10 yard split was 1.63, the best of any DT in the draft. For comparison, Luke Kuechly ran a 1.63 10-yd split as well. And Kuechly weighs 246lbs, compared to Cox's 298lbs. Fletcher Cox is considered Elite quickness/burst/first step.

He graded out very good against the run, and has room to bulk up another 10lbs without losing quickness.

[Mage]

He was a scout and personnel guy for 23 years for some good teams. He worked directly under Bill Walsh. He was with the Raiders when they were actually good. Maybe you should actually take a look at his resume.

What? Maybe you should look at his resume. He worked with Oakland from 1999-2007. The only success they ever found was when they signed old people off the market which, while it gave them some short term success, resulted in pathetic long term success. That's why Al Davis eventually fired him because after 2007, Oakland was still sucking. They had very little talent and had some seasons that were truly baffling (2006). In his single year with Philadelphia, they went 3-13.

I also like how you mention how he worked under Bill Walsh. All he was then was an area scout.

I actually like Mike Lombardi by the way, moreso than most other guys. But he should not be used as a crutch in an argument because you can't find any other way to argue so and so over so and so (this isn't directed at you specifically; just a statement in general for anyone who does it).