Panthers Apparently "love" Luke Kuechly

[Ricky Spanish]

you guys ever think that they didn't draft those LBs in the first because they got talent at that position in later rounds or through FA? if there were a re-draft, a lot of those guys would end up going in the first. in my opinion, arguing about where and when to take a certain position is dumb as hell, it depends on the individual player, their talent level, and team need. saying not to take ANYONE in the first just because other teams haven't is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

say you don't want him because we already have 3 starters, or that you have a feeling that davis will be healthy again, but not because we already have 2 first round LBers on the roster... I'm not in favor of drafting him, but come on, that's not a good argument.

[Carl Spackler]

A lot more than position drafting decides who wins and who loses. Every situation is different, from NYG to CAR to PHI to IND. Guys may pass on someone because they don't fit the system at the time, and pick someone who does at a different position. Doesn't make them geniuses or idiots and they can still win regardless.

[panthers55]

The positions that teams draft in the first round is very telling.

The Giants have not picked a LB or a RB in the first since 2000.

The Eagles have not picked a LB or a RB in the first since 1986

Those are two of the most consistent teams in the NFC that run the 43 that there has been in the last 10 years.

Since the Giants last picked either position we have picked 2 RB's, 3 LB's, and we are in a thread advocating the pick of yet another LB.

Sounds like good logic.

Actually whether we drafted a guy first round or we picked up a first rounder makes little difference.So instead of where we drafted lets see how many first round defensive linemen have we had in the last ten years versus linebackers. I can think of 3 right away, Lewis, Peppers and Brayton. Sounds even to me. On offensive line we had Otah, Gross. We may have 2 first round running backs but last year we had 2 first round tight ends. The draft is just one way to obtain our players. But to assume we only have first round linebackers or running backs on the team is pretty limited. Just like comparing us to only Philly or the giants is narrow as well. To get a better feel of things it would also be more useful to look at how many guys we took in the first 2 or 3 rounds since a high first rounder and a low second rounder for example are very similar.

[thefuzz]

You think so? Over that span, the avg. overall defensive rank for Philadelphia is 11.7. For the Giants it's 15.2. For Carolina it's 12.5. Want to try again?

Yeah. Um. Come back when you have statistics that actually back up your argument.

Have we been more consistent than either the Eagle and the Giants over the last 10 years?

P.S. I am talking about wins here. Remember this is a thread about who this team should draft with the no. 9 overall selection, you know....like a position that should be the highest impact player that you can get possible.

[CRA]

Steelers, Ravens, Giants.

1 Inside LB chosen in the last 10 years by these teams combined. IIRC

Ravens - 1st round LB as been the anchor of that team for a decade whether it be 4-3 or 3-4. An all time great. Can't say LB has been a key part to their success. Can't say LB isn't important bc they havent drafted a ILB since Ray.....he is one that goes down history.....IMPORTANCE of his position for them can't be denied.

Steelers - have drafted multiple LBs in the first 2 rounds over the last 8 years including the 1st round. ILBs.

Giants? I think you are being generous listing them....they have gotten hot and aided in winning some big games but haven't been a top D IMO over the last decade.....but still one of your 3 hasn't had the LB position valued in what they do.

LB play has been important for 2 of the 3 you named. If Ray Lewis was your standard very good LB then the Ravens would have had to go back to the well by now.

[thefuzz]

you guys ever think that they didn't draft those LBs in the first because they got talent at that position in later rounds or through FA? if there were a re-draft, a lot of those guys would end up going in the first. in my opinion, arguing about where and when to take a certain position is dumb as hell, it depends on the individual player, their talent level, and team need. saying not to take ANYONE in the first just because other teams haven't is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

say you don't want him because we already have 3 starters, or that you have a feeling that davis will be healthy again, but not because we already have 2 first round LBers on the roster... I'm not in favor of drafting him, but come on, that's not a good argument.

My argument is that only foolish teams continue to spend first round picks on RB's and LB's in todays NFL, as they are two of the lowest priorities of consistent winning teams.

I can say it again. 3 LB's and 2 RB's in the first since 2000, and we are in a thread talking about making it a 4th.

So if we take Luke that means that we would have spent 6 of our last 10 first round draft picks on RB's or LB's

Seems normal.

[thefuzz]

Ravens - 1st round LB as been the anchor of that team for a decade whether it be 4-3 or 3-4. An all time great. Can't say LB has been a key part to their success.

Steelers - have drafted multiple LBs in the first 2 rounds over the last 8 years including the 1st round. ILBs.

Giants? I think you are being generous listing them....they have gotten hot and aided in winning some big games but haven't been a top D IMO over the last decade.....but still one of your 3 hasn't had the LB position valued in what they do

Don't dispute the facts. 1 ILB from those 3 teams in the past decade. And 1 first round RB.

[csx]

The Eagles tend to predominantly draft OL & DL. I've always thought that was a good strategy.

[panthers55]

Steelers, Ravens, Giants.

1 Inside LB chosen in the last 10 years by these teams combined. IIRC

Why did the Ravens only draft 1 ILB in the past 10 years. They picked up Ray Lewis in the first ten years ago. Who needs anyone else.

Why haven't the Steelers? They got Troy Polumalu in the first round in 2003 who may be called a safety but acts like a linebacker 90% of the time.

And the Giants have bitched for years about not having a good MLB.

Given that we have a new coach and new scheme, it really isn't germaine what we did under Fox or the results we got. All of this bitching about drafting a running back or a ILB in the first and really Rivera hasn't done it yet. If he does draft Kuechly it will be the first time he has drafted a linebacker in the first not the third. Hurney did what Fox wanted to do, go to the Denver message board and bitch about Fox. Look at it, he did the same thing last year as well. But honestly this whole discussion is really inane when you consider that what happened in the past and the scheme we ran is not at all the same as the one we will run this year.

[panthers55]

Have we been more consistent than either the Eagle and the Giants over the last 10 years?

P.S. I am talking about wins here. Remember this is a thread about who this team should draft with the no. 9 overall selection, you know....like a position that should be the highest impact player that you can get possible.

Wins are team dependent not one unit. Talk about unit rankings and then yes we have been in the top 10 on defnse more than the Giants in the past 10 years and less than the Eagles. Why have we won fewer games? One reason. Lack of a franchise quarterback.

[thefuzz]

Why did the Ravens only draft 1 ILB in the past 10 years. They picked up Ray Lewis in the first ten years ago. Who needs anyone else.

Why haven't the Steelers? They got Troy Polumalu in the first round in 2003 who may be called a safety but acts like a linebacker 90% of the time.

And the Giants have bitched for years about not having a good MLB.

Given that we have a new coach and new scheme, it really isn't germaine what we did under Fox or the results we got. All of this bitching about drafting a running back or a ILB in the first and really Rivera hasn't done it yet. If he does draft Kuechly it will be the first time he has drafted a linebacker in the first not the third. Hurney did what Fox wanted to do, go to the Denver message board and bitch about Fox. Look at it, he did the same thing last year as well. But honestly this whole discussion is really inane when you consider that what happened in the past and the scheme we ran is not at all the same as the one we will run this year.

Gotcha, because the Ravens drafted an ILB 16 years ago, and the Steelers drafted a Safety that clears it all up....wtf?

I also forgot that Fox was HC/GM of this team....how did I miss that?

BTW, I am not bitching about Rivera here....the stupidity of what I discussed earlier falls directly in Hurney's lap. He has the final call on draft day, not Fox, and not Rivera.

My point: Hurney overvalues the RB and LB position almost to absurdity. And now there is a groundswell out there to take another LB. I would be just as worried if I thought for a minute that Richardson would fall to us. But thank god some other team is dumb enough to grab him before us.

[panthers55]

My argument is that only foolish teams continue to spend first round picks on RB's and LB's in todays NFL, as they are two of the lowest priorities of consistent winning teams.

I can say it again. 3 LB's and 2 RB's in the first since 2000, and we are in a thread talking about making it a 4th.

So if we take Luke that means that we would have spent 6 of our last 10 first round draft picks on RB's or LB's

Seems normal.

We know your argument and we think it is a foolish one. Teams draft what they think they need to win. I will say it again our currently coaching staff have drafted how many linebackers and running backs in the first round???

Yeah that would none. If they do it now that will be the first time. What Fox did or didn't do has nothing to do with the present or what we will or won't do.

[cotblock]

Have we been more consistent than either the Eagle and the Giants over the last 10 years?

P.S. I am talking about wins here. Remember this is a thread about who this team should draft with the no. 9 overall selection, you know....like a position that should be the highest impact player that you can get possible.

Wins, like overall defensive rankings, depend on several variables. You're reaching for a correlation that is, at best, so weak as to be insignificant. The fact is, the Eagles, Giants, and Panthers are separated by, guess what? 2 wins/year over that span. Eagles 9.9, Giants 8.8, Panthers 7.9. I won't go into every single other variable that affects that whole 2 game difference, but suffice it to say, if you want to believe that the failures of our franchise are due primarily to the fact that we've drafted 2 RBs and 3 LBs in the first round in 5 different years, well...okay then. You may now have a cookie.

[thefuzz]

We know your argument and we think it is a foolish one. Teams draft what they think they need to win. I will say it again our currently coaching staff have drafted how many linebackers and running backs in the first round???

Yeah that would none. If they do it now that will be the first time. What Fox did or didn't do has nothing to do with the present or what we will or won't do.

Who the fug has said anything about Panthers coaches making draft picks?

Hurney's job, not the coaches.