Supply And Demand

[rayzor]

do you guys ever get tired of mindlessly repeating whatever our FO tells you we should be doing

you ever get tired of acting like a bitch?

i went years thinking that the game had passed fox by and wanted him gone. i wanted us to go after a real QB instead of the garbage that we had been forced to accept. i had been tired that this team and that coach seemed only more than content to go with old players well passed their prime never giving young guys with a ton of talent a shot. i was tired of their inability to develop players. i was tired of their lack of focus on the passing game. i was tired of a desire to be hopefully just good enough to get by rather than being excellent. it was a culture of mediocrity that went from the top down. Every year that fox was around was an accepting of that culture by the FO and i hated it.

in the past couple years they started doing things that i liked, even working a deal to keep DWill around, even tho it was for a too much money. So i like the direction they're going now....what's the big deal? doesn't mean i'm some kind of mindless drone. i'll be a bit upset if we don't keep shockey around. i'll do a fair bit of bitching if they go and draft an OG with that #9 or they don't do anything to help out @ DT this year. For the most part, tho, i think they are on the right track.

[chknwing]

Carolina will trade with Denver as soon as Denver trades The Golden Calf of Bristol for picks.

[CRA]

Carolina will trade with Denver as soon as Denver trades The Golden Calf of Bristol for picks.

Did you mean to make that plural?

You mean as soon as Denver gets a pick and not a high one.

[panthers55]

Stewart would be an upgrade for over half the teams in the league. If we want to trade him we only need 1 team willing to make the move. It isn't like we will get a ton of picks no matter with whom we trade. But that only happens if Stewart doesn't want to stay here. While I would like him to stay I am concerned that we tried to sign him and he said no. Hopefullt this isn't Peppers II, the sequel. Hopefully we learned the first time.

[CRA]

Stewart would be an upgrade for over half the teams in the league. If we want to trade him we only need 1 team willing to make the move. It isn't like we will get a ton of picks no matter with whom we trade. But that only happens if Stewart doesn't want to stay here. While I would like him to stay I am concerned that we tried to sign him and he said no. Hopefullt this isn't Peppers II, the sequel. Hopefully we learned the first time.

I think Stewart wants to stay...if we pay him.

Problem is Stewart knows his best odds of getting the big deal is to wait until his contract us up. Can't blame him.

Problem is Carolina knows they can't afford to give him an updated Williams contract.

to me, it has Peppers written all over it. No reason to trade Stewart this year unless an idiotic teams offers a high pick...so you keep a cheap, productive, great young RB who wants to be here for 2012. Then he walks after 2012 b/c the team can't pay what he wants/deserves and settle for a comp pick.

[panthers55]

No money for Wharton, no money for Schwartz. Otah = ??

Guess we will have a lot of faith in the OLine for this shiny new stable of backs.

Wharton wouldn't take less and frankly he was awful last year. Schwartz was coming off hip surgery which can be difficult to do. I don't think we lost a bunch. The fact we didn't tried to keep Bernadeau suggest we are trying to upgrade. People forget Ziemba was a great left tackle in college, if Otah does come back, Bell would make a great right or left tackle and we still have Williams, Browning, Allen and Byers for depth before signing anyone else already.

Given Otah is in a contract year he will either come back strong or be gone. I think he will have a good year.

[Razeyfingers]

So what if. . .

Richardson actually paid D'Lo just to set precedent for the league and restructures him next year in order to accommodate Stew?

That was always the most likely scenario in my biased brain, but I dunno, come week 3 4 or 5, Stew is gonna start lookin really good to some teams that are hurting for backs.

[panthers55]

I think Stewart wants to stay...if we pay him.

Problem is Stewart knows his best odds of getting the big deal is to wait until his contract us up. Can't blame him.

Problem is Carolina knows they can't afford to give him an updated Williams contract.

to me, it has Peppers written all over it. No reason to trade Stewart this year unless an idiotic teams offers a high pick...so you keep a cheap, productive, great young RB who wants to be here for 2012. Then he walks after 2012 b/c the team can't pay what he wants/deserves and settle for a comp pick.

Biggest differences are that we didn't have anyone to replace Pepper's and to tag him was going to be something like 20 million. Stewart's tag would be right at 8 million which is what we would likely give him on an offer. He doesn't have near the leverage Pepper's did. Still I hope we learned from that and pull the trigger if he won't sign by June.

[panthers55]

So what if. . .

Richardson actually paid D'Lo just to set precedent for the league and restructures him next year in order to accommodate Stew?

That was always the most likely scenario in my biased brain, but I dunno, come week 3 4 or 5, Stew is gonna start lookin really good to some teams that are hurting for backs.

How exactly would a restructure work for Williams?? I keep hearing people say this but want know specifics. I don't think there is any way to make a restructure work on his contract. Tell me how you think it works and then I will tell you why it doesn't.

[CRA]

Biggest differences are that we didn't have anyone to replace Pepper's and to tag him was going to be something like 20 million. Stewart's tag would be right at 8 million which is what we would likely give him on an offer. He doesn't have near the leverage Pepper's did. Still I hope we learned from that and pull the trigger if he won't sign by June.

Well when I say it has Peppers written all over it....I was just talking about letting top tier talent just walk.

Unless someone is willng to offer something crazy I just don't think it is worth trading him to avoid him walking.

[panthers55]

Well when I say it has Peppers written all over it....I was just talking about letting top tier talent just walk.

Unless someone is willng to offer something crazy I just don't think it is worth trading him to avoid him walking.

If the best we can do is a third rounder and we can get a low third rounder as a compensatory pick, then it really doesn't make much sense. But if we can get next year's first, then it would make a ton of sense. Again I hope Stewart signs, I can't believe we are trying to lowball him. When exactly have we done that with anyone we signed last year.

[CRA]

If the best we can do is a third rounder and we can get a low third rounder as a compensatory pick, then it really doesn't make much sense. But if we can get next year's first, then it would make a ton of sense. Again I hope Stewart signs, I can't believe we are trying to lowball him. When exactly have we done that with anyone we signed last year.

Well, we haven't exactly had to pay 2 top tier contracts at the same position in that small of a window before.

I am not sure we are trying to lowball him. All that has been reported is they have tried to open up talks and Stewart/his people have rejected the talks. Could mean nothing no figures have even been discusssed.

I do think we are trying to find a means to not offer him a slightly better deal than the one Williams got.....and why would Stewart want to do that? Therefore his people don't want to talk now. I get his people not wanting to negotiate now.

[Razeyfingers]

How exactly would a restructure work for Williams?? I keep hearing people say this but want know specifics. I don't think there is any way to make a restructure work on his contract. Tell me how you think it works and then I will tell you why it doesn't.

A bonus is paid up front and then counts along the cap for the duration of the original contract length right? No matter what, youre paying the bonus, its already paid and its going to count on the cap. First tell me if that is correct I guess.

. . damn have to go dog got out. .

Im moving towards this thought: The contract outside of the guaranteed money can be re-negotiated whenever.If you want to set the market value and do something good for your player and team, you pay him a big bonus up front and tell him something like "look I want to restructure this when it comes time to pay Stew also but for now here's the bonus since you earned it". Now the rest of the teams have to pay there backs at that market value that you set.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

Wharton wouldn't take less and frankly he was awful last year. Schwartz was coming off hip surgery which can be difficult to do. I don't think we lost a bunch. The fact we didn't tried to keep Bernadeau suggest we are trying to upgrade. People forget Ziemba was a great left tackle in college, if Otah does come back, Bell would make a great right or left tackle and we still have Williams, Browning, Allen and Byers for depth before signing anyone else already.

Given Otah is in a contract year he will either come back strong or be gone. I think he will have a good year.

I've heard they are really high on Gary Williams giving us something this year, but it might have been from Joe Person so . . . I don't know what to do with that.