Source: Rb Mike Tolbert Visiting Carolina Panthers This Weekend

[CRA]

It is true for most players but not for players like, Smitty, Beason, JS, DA, Kallil & Gross.

Those players are the soul of the team.

No, it is true for them as well. Much better players than all of them have gone on to other teams before forced to retire. They can all retire here....however you won't want them all to play every down of their careers here of they want to collect checks and play as long as they physically can be on a field.

[panthers55]

Maybe someone who has paid for the prescription can tell us how our running backs fared in 2011 as far as blitz pickup. The 2010 stats don't include Williams or Stewart in the top 15 or bottom 15 in that category. Unless we think anecdotal observation of TV footage by biased fans is more accurate.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/17/2010-pass-blocking-efficiency-running-backs/

[panthers55]

I have no need to give you a reason more than Chud's documented use of the RBs. Stewart fit better an gave Chud more options....so Chud played him more. You are too caught up in trying to defend Williams.....it was obvious to even those that want Williams to retire here that Stewart fits in this offense better.

You have can argue Williams should remain a Panther but he isn't better than Stewart in this offense. Stewart does more....quote Williams rushing stats all you want.

We both know Stewart is the better RB in Carolina NOW.... We both know that. You are wanting to argue about documentation/support of something we both know is true. Which is silly

No, you are too caught up in trying to justify your belief that Williams was overpaid that it has morphed into a discussion that is anti-Williams at ever turn. People like me are simply trying to give balance to the argument and asking for some statistical evidence that what you have said is true besides your own biased views and opinions. I have also said that 1 year of a trend hardly indicates definitive proof of anything.

What will be interesting is if Stewart is traded as rumored then where will that leave you?? And what if we find out that the deal to Williams was done because they offered deals to both guys and only Williams wanted to be here. I don't know if any of that is true but the constant negativity against Hurney, Williams and "either or" character of your posts is why folks like me take up the gauntlet. I have no issue with Stewart or Williams and will defend either of them against negative unproven criticism. As for your assertion that Stewart is better, he was not a better runner in 2011, They were different and both averaged 5.4 yards per carry. Stewart did catch more passes but had more opportunities as well. Stewart averaged 8.8 yards a catch and Williams averaged 8.4. If that in your mind makes him better last year, fine. I have never argued that Stewart didn't have a great year or that Williams was better or worse. I have argued they are different backs who complement each other.

[CRA]

panthers55 thinks DeAngelo is just as good if not better in pass protection as Stewart.

panthers55 thinks a 29 yr old Williams fit the new offense just as well as Stewart did.

I get it. I completely disagree with both....and disagreeing with your 2 thoughts is not saying Williams sucks.

Also, like I always say, stats never tell you the real story. They aren't a complete argument and often mislead and lie. Look at QB ratings and the new ESPN one...they are often comical in how they misrepresent the truth.

[panthers55]

panthers55 thinks DeAngelo is just as good if not better in pass protection as Stewart.

panthers55 thinks a 29 yr old Williams fit the new offense just as well as Stewart did.

I get it. I completely disagree with both....and disagreeing with your 2 thoughts is not saying Williams sucks.

Also, like I always say, stats never tell you the real story. They aren't a complete argument and often mislead and lie. Look at QB ratings and the new ESPN one...they are often comical in how they misrepresent the truth.

I think I have articulated what I think, better than your biased characterizations. You don't need to speak for me or insinuate what I believe or don't in an attempt to ridicule my statements. I usually count on trolls to use those tactics. I thought you were better than that. I might have to reconsider.

[carpanfan96]

As for the Stewart - Williams debate, does it really matter at this point? The team gave Williams a big money deal (maybe they offered Stewart first and he declined) and he's getting paid enough that he's not being traded or cut anytime soon. (Dwill is a Panther for at least 2 more seasons). Unless the team wants to have two RB's on the roster with 45+ million dollar deals, Stewart is either being traded or will be allowed to walk. (18-20 Million a season on average for two RB's is pretty ridiculous.)

[CRA]

I think I have articulated what I think, better than your biased characterizations. You don't need to speak for me or insinuate what I believe or don't in an attempt to ridicule my statements. I usually count on trolls to use those tactics. I thought you were better than that. I might have to reconsider.

Well, that is my one issue. I dont think you are articulating what you think on the issue....you seem to just be nitpicking or finding fault in why others are taking there stance. Which is fine....but you need to take a clear stance IMO if you are to engage in that.

So you dont believe those 2 statements or you do? I honestly have no clue what you think....I just know you don't like how I arrive at my opinion.

[panthers55]

As for the Stewart - Williams debate, does it really matter at this point? The team gave Williams a big money deal (maybe they offered Stewart first and he declined) and he's getting paid enough that he's not being traded or cut anytime soon. (Dwill is a Panther for at least 2 more seasons). Unless the team wants to have two RB's on the roster with 45+ million dollar deals, Stewart is either being traded or will be allowed to walk. (18-20 Million a season on average for two RB's is pretty ridiculous.)

Apparently it matters to posters who are admitted Stewart fan boys or to those with an ax to grind about William's contract. To the rest of us, not so much. I have bought both their jerseys and support then equally. I just don't like to see either of them put in a negative light.

[CRA]

And 55 the only reason I go back forth at this point with you is that I have been in almost 100% agreement with your views in recent times....so there is just a curiosity about why this issue is what has become a rare difference in our views.

[panthers55]

Well, that is my one issue. I dont think you are articulating what you think on the issue....you seem to just be nitpicking or finding fault in why others are taking there stance. Which is fine....but you need to take a clear stance IMO if you are to engage in that.

So you dont believe those 2 statements or you do? I honestly have no clue what you think....I just know you don't like how I arrive at my opinion.

So if I answer these two questions then we are done? Right?? I never said DeAngelo was as good, better or worse than Stewart in pass protection. I said even if Stewart were better, that doesn't make Williams poor in pass protection. Notice I never said that Williams was as good or better and allowed that Williams could be worse, simply that he wasn't poor until proven so by stats rather than by biased observation.

Second I said that Chud through the season was able to develop the scheme to fit William's style as he did with Newton. The second half of the year the offensive line did a better job with cutback blocks and opening the outside lanes which benefited Williams and Stewart for that matter. I indicated that better is a point of view and I think they are better described as different backs who compliment each other.

But honestly this is what happens every time. Back and forth with no change in view or resolution. Like every thread that goes nowhere, I have nothing else to say and don't like saying the same thing over and over again. Have at it, but just know that saying it over and over again doesn't make it true.

[PanthersAlv]

So i didn't see a "he's here" post or thread, did he get here for a visit? I haven't heard anything, and have the "what are we doing, what i would do" posts. Now I just wanna know whats up. LOL

[Dpantherman]

And two words that I've heard very few people utter (myself included) is SPECIAL TEAMS. I keep hearing people say "We aren't addressing our needs!!" Our special teams unit has been arguable the WORST in the NFL for years now. Tolbert is an offensive weapon AND and ace on special teams. Great special teams units do not grow on trees.

But carry on.

[Carl Spackler]

I'd at least like to see us look at options at CB in FA. At least bring someone in for a workout, give someone a shot.

[Dpantherman]

You can't and won't see everything