I dont see the Hurney magic

[Kevin Greene]

Morgan vs. Witherspoon is a classic example of hindsight = 20/20.

Plus the Rams overpaid for Spoon

[panthers55]

I guess it depends on what people define a castaway as...

well to be fair, Shockey probably was close to being a castaway. He probably will play here for cheap if we want b/c there aren't many teams that are looking for what he is.

Yes, Shockey was productive but a lot of that was simply b/c he was a vet.....in a VERY TE friendly system where defenders had a lot of other players to worry about.

Shockey was a great fit. I think Derrick Anderson is UTTER POO yet at the same time a GREAT fit for what we needed last year.

also, Rivera IMO fixed the offense. Not Hurney. Chud was Rivera's guy. Cam was Rivera's guy. Could of inserted plenty of people into Shockey's role IMO (but again, we have had this conversation before).

Shockey was hardly a castoff. He has been productive everywhere he has gone. He got cut from NO because they had Jimmy Graham. He is a veteran presence and a locker room leader. He wasn't picked up because we want to get him cheaper and have high hopes for Barnidge not because he sucks. If he doesn't go elsewhere it will be because of all the other TEs out there looking for work not because he sucks.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Didn't we begin the regular season with a ridiculous 8 LBers on the roster? Injuries really took their toll on this team. If we had unlimited roster space, you'd have a point. But we can't realistically have a starter, a back-up, an insurance policy, and a band-aid at every position.

the # of guys doesn't really mean jack if they're all practice squad caliber players. what was the backup plan if TD couldn't go exactly. who on the team was a legitimate starter at OLB for when TD goes down again? who was a legitimate starter as a #2 CB? A starting caliber UT? What was our backup plan if Otah got hurt...again?

we keep filling our team with these UDFAs and waiver wire players and hoping they can work out. yeah, might happen every once in awhile but that's not something you can rely on consistently. And the results speak for themself.

[Chimera]

To everyone who wants the Panthers to spend big in Free Agency, remember the Bill Polian days.

We came into the league spending money on every Joe who hit the wire. Yes we got great players like Wesley Walls and Kevin Greene. Yes we went to the NFC Championship in 1996. Then what? We had no money to spend on players for several years afterwards.

I prefer the Hurney way. It hasn't paid off for us yet. However, we see it every year, and it pays off for teams who have a similar methodology. Teams who spend like the early Panthers did watch the playoffs every year. Look at the Philly "Dream Team" last year.

[CRA]

Shockey was hardly a castoff. He has been productive everywhere he has gone. He got cut from NO because they had Jimmy Graham. He is a veteran presence and a locker room leader. He wasn't picked up because we want to get him cheaper and have high hopes for Barnidge not because he sucks. If he doesn't go elsewhere it will be because of all the other TEs out there looking for work not because he sucks.

okay, then if he wasn't a castoff last year (and after the season he just put in).....someone should pick him up fairly soon? Sounds like your are trying to play all sides by saying if no one will employ him he still isn't a castoff....

Didn't say Shockey sucked. Castoff doesn't = horrible. Said not many teams are looking for what he is....Castoffs IMO (how I define them) are basically old guns for hire to fill a void for a year and not much more.

[Chimera]

the # of guys doesn't really mean jack if they're all practice squad caliber players.

what was the backup plan if TD couldn't go exactly. who on the team was a legitimate starter at OLB for when TD goes down again?

Gaither was a starter in Philly several years ago. Legitimate? Arguable.

who was a legitimate starter as a #2 CB? A starting caliber UT? What was our backup plan if Otah got hurt...again?

Captain had a a solid season as a nickel in 2010. Everyone on the huddle was uneasy with him playing #2, but obviously the coaching staff had confidence in him. With Otah, we had Garry Williams and Lee Ziemba. Sorry, I'm not sure what exactly a "UT" is.

we keep filling our team with these UDFAs and waiver wire players and hoping they can work out. yeah, might happen every once in awhile but that's not something you can rely on consistently. And the results speak for themself.

And the results speak for themselves when you overspend. How did that Eagle Dream Team work out?

You forget that nobody in this organization had the goal of winning the Super Bowl last season. It was a transition year. I'm not even sure if 2012 is going to be a year where the organization expects to win. Come 2013, the Panthers had better be in Win It All mode or there will be serious, permanent damage done to the fanbase.

[panthers55]

the # of guys doesn't really mean jack if they're all practice squad caliber players. what was the backup plan if TD couldn't go exactly. who on the team was a legitimate starter at OLB for when TD goes down again? who was a legitimate starter as a #2 CB? A starting caliber UT? What was our backup plan if Otah got hurt...again?

we keep filling our team with these UDFAs and waiver wire players and hoping they can work out. yeah, might happen every once in awhile but that's not something you can rely on consistently. And the results speak for themself.

If I remember correctly wasn't Jason Phillips the backup to TD until he got injured as well?? Then we went with Jason Williams. Who is the starter now?? I would think Williams and Phillips or Keiser. If they are smart they draft 1 or 2 guys as well given that linebacker is one of the spots where rookies can come in and play right away.

As for number 2 corner, it would be Hogan or Butler with Thomas and Pugh as backups and Munnerlyn as the nickel. I am positive we are picking up other guys though. If Otah gets hurt we plug in Bell again.

For where we are in the season right now it isn't all bad.

[panthers55]

okay, then if he wasn't a castoff last year (and after the season he just put in).....someone should pick him up fairly soon? Sounds like your are trying to play all sides by saying if no one will employ him he still isn't a castoff....

Didn't say Shockey sucked. Castoff doesn't = horrible. Said not many teams are looking for what he is....Castoffs IMO (how I define them) are basically old guns for hire to fill a void for a year and not much more.

Here is the list of free agents- given who is gone- Shockey is the 7th highest rated free agent out there.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2012TE.php

I think he might very well be gone unless he wants to play here.

What is funny is that I am defending him after really not liking him in New York for sure. LOL.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

yes everyone keep bringing up redskins, eagles and being big spenders as nobody here is suggesting that.

[Marguide]

There is much that Hurney does that I don't agree with. Examples...going into the year with Captain at #2, and with 2 rookies and a 2nd year player at DT. I also think we should have signed Shockey already.

But I agree 100.% with the strategy of waiting for things to cool down in FA before bringing in new players.

As of today, we have significant holes on the OL, DL, CB and LB. If those have not been adequately addressed by week 1, then MH and RR deserve all the criticism they are prematurely getting now.

[panther4life]

yes everyone keep bringing up redskins, eagles and being big spenders as nobody here is suggesting that.

Forget them, they were not playoff contenders. Here's a list of perennially good playoff teams 2000-2009 anyway(first list on google result).

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/01/07/nfl-standings-for-the-decade-colts-patriots-are-the-best-lion/

Packers,Colts,Steelers,Patriots, Eagles all had winning percenatages above 600 and the only ones in that time frame.

They all had stellar/elite QB play during that tenure. In addition they also had great Head Coaches in that time frame. We finally have an elite QB and a modern day way of thinking with a coach who has potential to be great. Of those teams mentioned only the Eagles could be argued to be bigger spenders than us.

So anyway Hurney took over as GM in 02 and has been there ever since.

I think you can not hold 2010 against him but I will allow his first year taking over(even tho you cant build a team overnight) and include riveras first year.

doing so gives you 9 seasons (144 regular season games) he has totaled 77 wins out of those for a win percentage of .534. If you add in our postseason records the teams win percentage goes even higher.

That .534 winning percentage would have us the 10th best team in football based off the 2000-09 list. If somebody has time you can do from 2002-11 but I am sure the results won't change in a way to make an argument against Hurney.

[CRA]

Here is the list of free agents- given who is gone- Shockey is the 7th highest rated free agent out there.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2012TE.php

I think he might very well be gone unless he wants to play here.

What is funny is that I am defending him after really not liking him in New York for sure. LOL.

He was great for Cam last year...being so well rounded he probably was more important than Olsen by a fair margin. I just think we hit it perfect with him....right time, right situation, etc. Some guys fit great for a year...with his age, past, and Cam's growth I think we can find better for the price.

[Frizzy350]

hey everyone, when was the last time a panther player was involved in a huge contract dispute and/or threatening to hold out?

[BombzAway]

hey everyone, when was the last time a panther player was involved in a huge contract dispute and/or threatening to hold out?

I'd say Peppers had to be a contract dispute situation.