I dont see the Hurney magic

[jtnc]

Let's see...who have the Giants signed? How about the Pats? Green Bay? Pittsburg?

Patience is a virtue.

They're better at drafting than us, have loads of talent. We have scrubs and overrated players.

[CRA]

we can debate what he was worth, we can debate why keep a player around who doesn't want to stay, but I think you're going to have a hard time trumping the fact that John Fox was trying to save his job and wasn't about to let 14.5 sacks walk out of the door when the heat was on....

and I don't doubt John Fox would be willing to do anything if his job literally was on the line.....and it was.

but Fox isn't the GM. GM has to see past more than just the season we are entering.

[mantal]

Boy, it's hot in here...

I'll take Hurney's style any day. Getting value free agents without throwing the checkbook is the right way to do it. It's worked well in the past. Let's not let the last of the Fox era dictate our thinking now. Not that expect that to take, I just thought I'd throw it out there...

[R0CKnR0LLA]

thing is we generally don't get the 2nd tier value FAs... or even the 3rd tier. we get the bottom of the barrel scrubs and castoffs that nobody else wants for the bare minimum. if your biggest moves in free agency comes after teams are making cuts then you're probably not doing as much as you can

[panthers55]

To draft superstars you have to pick early which means you suck.I really did not mean to say we get players only through the draft. I guess I was hoping that we could have restructured enough cap to upgrade a position of need and we still may.

Look at 2003 since that was brought up. Were Davis, Delhomme or Proehl superstars? Both Davis and Delhomme had superstar seasons that year but were not big names. Proehl was a big piece not only for his on the field contributions but guys like Smith credit him with mentoring and teaching the tricks of route running.

If you can get a guy for 30% of the price of a superstar with 80% of the talent you come out way ahead. This is the tortoise and the hare story played out in free agency.

[jarhead]

thing is we generally don't get the 2nd tier value FAs... or even the 3rd tier. we get the bottom of the barrel scrubs and castoffs that nobody else wants for the bare minimum. if your biggest moves in free agency comes after teams are making cuts then you're probably not doing as much as you can

Well put!

[Marguide]

They're better at drafting than us, have loads of talent. We have scrubs and overrated players.

We're as talented on the offensive side of the ball as any team in football. Our defense sucks, but that will be fixed.

And please show how they are better than us at drafting. Pittsburg has a great system, and can plug in guys to keep it going. The Pats do not draft very well.

You are just pissed because we aren't doing what Washington is doing (or Tampa).

[panthers55]

thing is we generally don't get the 2nd tier value FAs... or even the 3rd tier. we get the bottom of the barrel scrubs and castoffs that nobody else wants for the bare minimum. if your biggest moves in free agency comes after teams are making cuts then you're probably not doing as much as you can

You think Shockey was a scrub? What about trading for Olsen or signing Edwards?? Scrubs and castaways??? Hardly.....

[bleys]

and I don't doubt John Fox would be willing to do anything if his job literally was on the line.....and it was.

but Fox isn't the GM. GM has to see past more than just the season we are entering.

GM and Coach were 50/50 on decisions.. it's always been that way. Hurney did what he had to do to help Fox bring a winning season to Carolina, and that's what he did.

you may not agree with it, but you also can't sit there and pretend Hurney should have said "Well, Fox, fug you.. good luck in the future"...

I wish he did.. but that's also not what GM is supposed to do.

[CRA]

You think Shockey was a scrub? What about trading for Olsen or signing Edwards?? Scrubs and castaways??? Hardly.....

to be fair, Edwards didn't play a snap. Can't chaulk that one up either way.

Shockey looked to be a 1 yr band-aid for a TE spot that was neglected for years.

[CRA]

GM and Coach were 50/50 on decisions.. it's always been that way. Hurney did what he had to do to help Fox bring a winning season to Carolina, and that's what he did.

you may not agree with it, but you also can't sit there and pretend Hurney should have said "Well, Fox, fug you.. good luck in the future"...

I wish he did.. but that's also not what GM is supposed to do.

I get you need a GM and coaching working well together....however, you can't have a GM tell a coach whatever you want....when the owner has said to Fox win or be fired. Big picture for the GM can still be looked at.

Telling Fox Peppers is an issue isn't exactly saying F u. You can also play your 2.5 sack stat at that. He doesn't want to be here, production is going down....let's get you and us some talent w/ his value.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

I really liked the Shockey signing, we need to do more like that. Like half the team every year is late round rookies, UDFAs and waiver wire pickups. No way we should have gone into the season with Munnerlyn as our #2. Or no real backup plan for when TD surely blows out another ACL. And several other examples and that's talking about starters, it's no surprise why our depth (AKA STs) blows every year.

look at all the needs we have now. we need like 5-6 starters and we only have 2 early draft picks.

[panthers55]

to be fair, Edwards didn't play a snap. Can't chaulk that one up either way.

Shockey looked to be a 1 yr band-aid for a TE spot that was neglected for years.

Thaqt wasn't the question. When we picked up Edwards and Shockey and drafted Olsen, were they scrubs and castaways as alleged. A GM can't prevent a player from getting hurt plus you have to have the short term fixes as well as long term gems. Don't use revisionist history but look at what Hurney did in free agency and the draft last year. He fixed the offense. This year he will fix the defense the same way.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

never did i call shockey a srub or castaway. olsen wasn't a FA pickup by the way.

what I said is that we GENERALLY don't get the 2nd or 3rd tier value FAs, but the bottom of the barrel guys and the fact that you can only bring up who you have just proves my point. you even said yourself just a few minutes ago in this same thread "In 2008 we shifted gears and went the whole add journeymen and reasonably cheap players. That is what we have done ever since. "