Panthers' Official Cap as of 3/11

[panthers55]

Everyone wants to look at Marty's first round picks and proclaim him a good GM. He sucks, as you point out. He overspent on his own players because they are KNOWN quantities. He has no eye for talent. Want proof? Look who he drafted when he was getting no input from the coach (Fox was a lame duck): Clausen (tried to trade up to get him), Armanti (traded the 33rd pick in the 2011 draft to get a smallish, small-school QB who had never caught a punt in his life to play WR, return punts, and run the wildcat, a fad gimmick, basically.

He paid a ton to DW, a running back who had not finished a season in 2 years and who would play most of his contract on the wrong side of 30. RBs are devalued in the NFL right now, but we have 2 first rounders. DW had about 600 yards last year on about 115 carries. Are we getting what we paid for? And Thomas Davis got guaranteed $ to extend his contract after 2 ACL surgeries---He had a year left on his deal--Why give the man guaranteed money until you KNOW the knee is fine? How STUPID was that? And to make matters worse, we give Kalil and Beason contracts that make them the highest paid players at their respective positions when they are not the best players at their positions. Godfrey was overpaid. CJ was overpaid, but we HAD to pay him that becuse we draft reactively instead of proactively.

Those who say the Hurney is good will refer you to the first round and his high success rate. He drafts SAFELY in the first round. LBs, OL, RBs, CB--all positions that are easy to project to the NFL. We Have needed DT badly since Jenkins left. Who are the DTs we drafted? DT is difficult to project, as is DE. So we get Tank Tyler and Leonard Lewis, Pat Hayden and Corvey Irvin.

Bottom line: Hurney's spending has been as bad as his drafting in the second round. I hear him say, "We kept our core." as if we should be impressed by that. When you suck, it takes more $ to keep players here--I see that. However, Do not brag about the DW contract when he gets an average of 7 carries per game or the Johnson deal when he cannot break double digit sacks. Please explain how Godfrey deserves to be rich or how Beason deserves more than Willis.

We should be about $30 million under the cap.

Cut Wharton

Cut Davis

Cut Clausen

That is what should happen. Savings? About $13 million.

Sign an OLB and maybe an OG in free agency.

Actually if you look at WIlliams he had almost 1000 yards if you count rushing and receiving so I am not sure that represents poor value. Davis will be released so it won't kill us although it could have been structured differently. As for Edwards and Clausen they cost us picks but are cheap. They become the poster children for wasted picks but honestly most teams miss with some picks every year. If you look at the total contracts I don't know if you could say everyone was overpaid which is your general contention.

For your cut suggestions I an sure davis will be cut or voluntary redoes his contract. I am not sure about clausen though as he is still relatively cheap but it is a poosibility. If we cut Wharton though we save only 3.7 million of the 7.7 million cap hit since his signing bonus from this year and next year escalate. How many starting left guards who are better will we get for less than 3.7 million?

[EMSMedic79]

Needless to say the next 48 hrs are going to be a rollercoaster.... hopefully we can get the deals done and seek out a few key pieces in FA.

[rayzor]

i'm not disputing the numbers, but what makes those numbers official? where did PFT get those numbers? how up to date is that info? that isn't exactly public info, is it?

[CRA]

Actually if you look at WIlliams he had almost 1000 yardds if you coount rushing and receiving so I am not sure that represents poor value. davis will be released so it won't kill us although it could have been structured differently. As for Edwards and Clausen they cost us picks but are cheap. They become the poster children for wasted picks but honestly most teams miss with some picks every year. If you look at the total contracts I don't know if you could say everyone was overpaid which is your general contention.

For your cut suggestions I an sure davis will be cut or voluntary redoes his contract. I am not sure about clausen though as he is still relatively cheap but it is a poosibility. If we cut Wharton though we save only 3.7 million of the 7.7 million cap hit since his signing bonus from this year and next year escalate. How many starting left guards who are better will we get for less than 3.7 million?

So you don't think Cam/Stewart could of taken more reps instead of Williams taking those? Maybe of added a true 3rd down RB for very light work as well?

Too often people focus too much on what Williams CAN do or DOES. When people say they don't want Williams they aren't saying he sucks. Just saying Stewart can do it. Stewart wants those reps anyway. Stewart isn't living in this world fans paint where he was to share the load his whole career. They overlook that others can do what he is doing.

That money could of given us a stud defensive player......thus if Williams work can be done by another we are better using his money elsewhere.

[panthers55]

So you don't think we overpaid anyone?

Don't need to compare it to the franchise tag bc I think Carolina should of done the new deals. They could of paid every one of those guys listed less money and saved millions. What was CJ offered in Atl again? He could do been retained with a new deal for a lot less.....same for Godfrey and Davis.

Beason could be the deal that hurts the worst....but going in you had to pay him. The others guys you had to pay to keep ....just not as much as we did.

You are saying we couldn't of kept this guys on smaller new deals? I find that hard to believe. CJ was the best and most attractive....and no one was offering close to what we paid.

You sign your core and pay them well so they don't go to free agency. You can't pay them less than the going rate and expect them not to test free agency. CJ was paid a premium so he stayed here. Remember we were coming off a 2-14 season and had just cut a ton of veterans. we were looking like the worse team in the NFL before we turned things around. Who wanted to play for us if we didn't pay them a bunch?? CJ said he wanted to go to a contender, he only stayed here because we paid him so much. So no I don't think we could have paid smaller contracts after Richardson gutted the team in 2010. Do I think we could pay less this year given what happened in 2011, yeah perhaps so. But I think everyone forgets how bad things were last offseason.

[panthers55]

So you don't think Cam/Stewart could of taken more reps instead of Williams taking those? Maybe of added a true 3rd down RB for very light work as well?

Too often people focus too much on what Williams CAN do or DOES. When people say they don't want Williams they aren't saying he sucks. Just saying Stewart can do it. Stewart wants those reps anyway. Stewart isn't living in this world fans paint where he was to share the load his whole career. They overlook that others can do what he is doing aready on this roster. His name in Jonathan Stewart.

That money could of given us a stud defensive player......thus if Williams work can be done by another we are better using his money elsewhere.

Haven't we beaten this to death. I might argue the point if I thought there was a 1% chance you would change your mind. But given that won't happen lets agree to disagree and move on. This is the same stuff rehashed over and over in every thread.

[CRA]

You sign your core and pay them well so they don't go to free agency. You can't pay them less than the going rate and expect them not to test free agency. CJ was paid a premium so he stayed here. Remember we were coming off a 2-14 season and had just cut a ton of veterans. we were looking like the worse team in the NFL before we turned things around. Who wanted to play for us if we didn't pay them a bunch?? CJ said he wanted to go to a contender, he only stayed here because we paid him so much. So no I don't think we could have paid smaller contracts after Richardson gutted the team in 2010. Do I think we could pay less this year given what happened in 2011, yeah perhaps so. But I think everyone forgets how bad things were last offseason.

So we couldn't of resigned and paid Johnson, Godrey, and Davis well....and paid them less? Atl proved what the going rate was for CJ....and we comically paid more. If you shock the player w/ your offer....that is a good sign you are overpaying.

No team was going to ****** up Davis and pay him that (plus he wanted to be here). No team was going to pay Godfrey that either. Plenty of reporters also have quoted "unnamed GMs" who said Carolina was crazy paying Wiliams as well.

[CRA]

Haven't we beaten this to death. I might argue the point if I thought there was a 1% chance you would change your mind. But given that won't happen lets agree to disagree and move on. This is the same stuff rehashed over and over in every thread.

well, I guess we need the Panthers to do something and give us some new topics then.....

[Snake]

So we couldn't of resigned and paid Johnson, Godrey, and Davis well....and paid them less? Atl proved what the going rate was for CJ....and we comically paid more. If you shock the player w/ your offer....that is a good sign you are overpaying.

No team was going to ****** up Davis and pay him that (plus he wanted to be here). No team was going to pay Godfrey that either. Plenty of reporters also have quoted "unnamed GMs" who said Carolina was crazy paying Wiliams as well.

You obviously didn't understand the situation we were in last year and that's why you don't understand why we payed CJ and Dwill so much.

[MaineManPanther]

The going rate isn't universally the same for every team.

If we matched Atlanta's offer or paid a little more do you truly think he would've picked us over his where he grew up , where his family lives and where they would be top contenders for the Super Bowl?

Then add to the fact that if the price wasn't good enough he would be going to our division rival and we'd be facing one of the best Defensive ends twice a year. We got worse while they got better.

We couldn't risk that.

Had not been Atlanta then I think you would've seen a lower contract, but he had connections and the stakes were high.

[panthers55]

So we couldn't of resigned and paid Johnson, Godrey, and Davis well....and paid them less? Atl proved what the going rate was for CJ....and we comically paid more. If you shock the player w/ your offer....that is a good sign you are overpaying.

No team was going to ****** up Davis and pay him that (plus he wanted to be here). No team was going to pay Godfrey that either. Plenty of reporters also have quoted "unnamed GMs" who said Carolina was crazy paying Wiliams as well.

I love how you can definitively say that no one was going to pay him that, or that this was what he was worth. You have no idea what was going on, what the offers were or anything else. Seriously, do you really think that Hurney overpaid guys for no reason and just threw away millions? After Richardson was so tight in 2010 do you think he would retained Hurney after all these contracts if he wasn't fine with the direction we are heading? We didn't tender Schwartz which some think is a money issue. So we would pay one guy 30 million more than we had to and wouldn't pay another guy 1.5 million because we are so screwed up we are just an awful FO. I really don't see how you think Richardson would allow those kind of things. He is a busineesman and this is a business. I have to assume that he and Hurney know alot of things you don't have a clue about. Give the guy a break. Sure he screws up sometime but to listen to you he has never done anything right besides drafting Newton.If Ricardson would fire his own sons, he wouldn't keep Hurney if he half as bad as you portray him to be.

[Wyank]

I've seen this thread before ...

[panthers55]

well, I guess we need the Panthers to do something and give us some new topics then.....

Or we could stop beating the same dead horse in every thread when obviously the front office, and many fans don't agree with you.

[CRA]

You obviously didn't understand the situation we were in last year and that's why you don't understand why we payed CJ and Dwill so much.

I can understand the argument for Johnson. I just think instead of payin him 20 million more than he was offered by Atl....they could of done less. They could of still drastically outbid Atl....and paid less.

No, the arguements for paying Williams made little sense to me once Fox left and we had Stewart. Once we knew we were getting Cam it made less. Again, that has little to do with how good Williams is or isn't.