Rookie pay scale??

[dexterpyro]

With the draft coming up, I really think the NFL needs to impllement a rookie pay scale. I beleive it will help everyoe in the long run. Why pay a rookie 30 million dollars for his potential?? I do not mind the players getting paid but show me something first. The Nba does it and it woks out for them. What NBA draft pick holds out to get 2 mil more?? None. This needs to be in the Next CBA and they need to keep a salary cap. Do we really want to go to the 80's and 90's were only 3-4 teams are any good??

The players, the owners and the NFL need to get to work.

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong area

[pstall]

Wasn't the NBA kinda sorta like this up until several years ago?

Now all the NFL teams are trading OUT of the top 10.

[Fireball77]

I agree. My idea for a long time has been have a "starting salary" for the first rounders based on SLOT DRAFTED not QBs should get more, etc. Then as compensation to the players, make the contract length shorter for first rounders (3 years) and allow them to be a RFA after 3 years and UFA after 4, then allow teams to use the FT only ONE time on a player while they are on that team. Once teams aren't giving huge deals to top of the first round rookies, they may not have to use the FT to keep a top player anymore because they will have more dough to devote to him long term if they so desire. And perhaps the owners will feel this contract reduction is mitigation enough for the money and time they sink into developing these kids since they won't be having to pay those big 1st round bonuses and have it be almost 50/50 if the guy is going to be worth all that upfront bonus money they fork over.

I heard on NFL Live the other day that most veteran players will indeed support a rookie pay restriction if they will reap the benefits as vets. I know...DUUUUUHHH!

[dksmith17]

Goodell has been for this for a while. Unfortunately it is very hard to work out with the players association.

[DaveThePanther2008]

I just read an article on the Bust or NOT Bust of the 2006 draft.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=538191

Out of 32 picks. 10 were listed as a bust. 5 of them in the 1st 10 picks.

Some of the names on that list.

Reggie Bush, Vince Young, Matt Leihart, Vernon Davis, Michael Huff. These names were all over the message boards and sure fire can't miss hits. Guess what? They missed.

I think they should set a scale for the 1st pick and no one is allowed to award a salary higher than the 1st pick. They can incentive laden them with miniimum standard incentives established by the NFLPA. The team would be held acccountable on the salary cap based on the incentive clauses. I think that would be acceptable. After a year or so the team wants to renegotiate then they can.

I would love to see it. It is very disenlightening to see some of the best and brightest stars getting less then an unproved rookie all because the agents are greedy and ruthless.

Go Panthers

[rayzor]

i'm sure that the rookie salary cap is going to be a big part of the discussions when the collective bargaining talks start up.

i've heard a lot of the arguments for and against but this was one i hadn't seen before, the impact that it would have on players drafted later...it might actually help them.

this was from an article on yahoo sports about a week ago (link)

Later picks often ignored in rookie salary debate

By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports Apr 9, 2:02 pm EDT

As the annual discussion over high-end rookie contracts is again about to take center stage, consider the cases of San Francisco 49ers quarterback Alex Smith and St. Louis Rams guard Jason Brown.

Smith, the No. 1 overall NFL draft pick in 2005, was supposed to rebuild the 49ers’ passing legacy that has crumbled since Jeff Garcia appeared in three straight Pro Bowls earlier this decade. After being drafted, Smith was given a six-year deal that included $24 million guaranteed.

Four years later, Smith has been a bust, an example given by top team executives, fans and even some veteran players of the wasted money paid to top rookies. Worse, his contract is a key stepping stone to the strong possibility that the No. 1 pick in this year’s draft may become only the second player in league history to get $40 million guaranteed. Pro Bowl defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth was the first player to do that when he signed with the Washington Redskins in February.

Then there is the case of Brown, a fourth-round pick by the Baltimore Ravens in ’05 – the 124th player selected. With the Ravens, Brown became a full-time starter in his second season, played both center and guard, started 44 of 48 regular-season games over the past three years and is considered one of the top interior offensive linemen in the game.

During Brown’s four seasons in Baltimore, he made a grand total of $2.741 million. While no one in the general public is crying tears over Brown’s plight (particularly after he signed a five-year, $37.5 million contract with the Rams in February), the fact is that Brown’s combined income as he developed into one of the top players in the game couldn’t pay Smith’s California state income tax.

In short, the NFL’s salary scale for rookies is broken with the top handful of picks gobbling up huge sums while the vast majority of young players toil for much less.

“Is the system out of whack?” asked agent Tom Condon, who along with partner Ben Dogra of Creative Artists Agency represents recent top-5 picks Smith, Mario Williams, Jake Long and Matt Ryan. “I can’t sit here and tell you it’s not. But, by the same token, it’s out of whack at the other end. When teams misevaluate a guy like Jason Brown and he ends up in the fourth round, then he becomes one of the best players in the league, there should be a way for him to make some more money.”

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Even more, overall rookie pay has decreased from 7 percent in 1995 to 4 percent in 2008, according to a study commissioned by the NFL Players Association.

“What the owners claim is a problem is really not an issue,” NFLPA attorney Richard Berthelsen said. “The rookies aren’t making money at the expense of the veterans. What’s really happening is that the top rookies are taking money away from the ones at the bottom.”

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......the NFL and NFLPA have created a system that almost forces the top picks to get inordinate amounts of money from the rookie cap. The top 16 picks in the first round can be signed to six-year contracts and the highest picks are often given the longest contracts because they are viewed as potential cornerstone players. The bottom 16 picks of the first round can be signed to five-year maximum contracts. After the first round, the maximum contract for a player is four years.

The NFL Players Association requested the four-year max after the first round because the union felt that far too many rookies were signing long-term deals that prevented them from ever becoming unrestricted free agents.

While the league and union have created a formula for contracts, there’s obviously no way to guarantee success rates among the players. Again, the 2005 draft is a prime example.

Aside from Smith at No. 1, the top 10 picks were a wasteland. Running back Cedric Benson was taken No. 4 overall by the Chicago Bears, cornerback Pacman Jones was taken No. 6 by the Tennessee Titans, wide receiver Troy Williamson went No. 7 to the Minnesota Vikings and wide receiver Mike Williams went No. 10 to the Detroit Lions. Only Smith is still with the team that drafted him while Benson, Jones and Williams have all been cut at least once. Jones and Williams are out of football.

That doesn’t account for No. 5 overall pick Carnell “Cadillac” Williams, the running back from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers who has played in only 10 games over the past two years because of injuries. The remaining picks in the top 10 that year were running back Ronnie Brown at No. 2, wide receiver Braylon Edwards at No. 3, cornerback/safety Antrel Rolle at No. 8 and cornerback Carlos Rogers at No. 9. That’s not exactly a treasure trove of players. Conversely, the fourth round featured not only [Jason] Brown, but also running backs Brandon Jacobs and Marion Barber, quarterback Kyle Orton and safety Kerry Rhodes.

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In short, players can’t be expected to sign six-year contracts and take less money.

Thus, the easiest solution is to make all rookie contracts shorter. Shorter contracts means less guaranteed money for bust players such as Smith. It also allows good players who went later in the draft, such as Brown, to get to free agency faster.

at any rate, something needs to be done. i don't know if it is doing what they suggested and making the guaranteed money less and the contracts shorter, capping the guaranteed amounts but allowing for a good bit of extra incentive based pay (although that could still tie up the cap).

i did think it was interesting that while the pay for those in the first round, especially in the top 10, the overall rookie pay has decreased by 7% since 1995.

guys who come in and start producing big time right out of the gate are working at near the league minimum for a couple years into their contract because they were taken late. they become among the best in the league while guys in the top ten get $20-30-40mil guaranteed and they don't even have to play a down and many times will be flat out busts.

i know upshaw was very much opposed to the idea but i'd be surprised if the majority of players would be as opposed to it if there was discussed a shorter contract period. since there is a new head of the NFLPA, you think there is a better chance of the rookie cap getting worked out?

[Fireball77]

Well whoever the head of the NFLPA is, he is supposed to represent the interest of the players as conveyed to him by the team player reps, so I would hope that if the majority of player reps tell him it's a concern that he does emphasize it.

One thing that's good already is that fund they pay players who perform above expectations each year so their contracts are augmented. Not sure what it's called.

[rayzor]

Well whoever the head of the NFLPA is, he is supposed to represent the interest of the players as conveyed to him by the team player reps, so I would hope that if the majority of player reps tell him it's a concern that he does emphasize it.

One thing that's good already is that fund they pay players who perform above expectations each year so their contracts are augmented. Not sure what it's called.

i'm not sure what that is called either but one thing that needs to be done to get the players supporting something that would control the costs teams pay to the top 10 is to educate them on the overall effect it has on the rookie classes and overall pay of the team.

[DaveThePanther2008]

I was looking around on CBS sports and saw a thread on rookie Salary Caps. I thought there was a thread on it in here but I couldn't find it and don't feel like searching for it. ANYHOW... I thought of a way to create such a cap. Anyhow I would like your input or alternate ideas. Not that it will do any good but WTF.

Here is how they do it. Rookie Salary Cap with Base salary based on position and round. The base should probably be the average of the bottom 5 or 10 STARTERS. The NFLPA creates a realistic Rookie Incentive pay scale for 1st and 2nd rounders. Why I say the NFLPA instead of the team is the association is made up of PLAYERS who have paid the price already. For example... The bottom 10 STARTING QB's in the NFL make an average of 3 mil a year (NO RESEARCH JUST A FIGURE) Then the incentives come in 85 QB rating or higher $1Mil, 60% completion rate or higher $1Mil, 3000yd or More $1Mil. Less than 15 int $1 Mil. Now total up these incentives and all 1st round QB picks Get 3 Mil a year with incentives up to 7mil but the kicker is the team is tagged with 7 Mil against the Cap. On and on for the other positions. They do this for round 2 as well. Lower starting salaries, lower incentives. This gets complicated but the whole scale is mandated by representatives of the NFLPA. Rounds 3 through 7 is set by position with NO incentives. The cool thing is NO AGENTS. The player is picked his salary is already set. He signs the deal and shows up for mini-camps. Though the initital contract is for 4 or 5 years the player after 2 yrs can negotiate a better salary after they have proven themselves. Whatcha Think.

Go Panthers

[dexterpyro]

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/nfl-draft/11307-rookie-pay-scale.html

[jramsey4]

I was looking around on CBS sports and saw a thread on rookie Salary Caps. I thought there was a thread on it in here but I couldn't find it and don't feel like searching for it. ANYHOW... I thought of a way to create such a cap. Anyhow I would like your input or alternate ideas. Not that it will do any good but WTF.

Here is how they do it. Rookie Salary Cap with Base salary based on position and round. The base should probably be the average of the bottom 5 or 10 STARTERS. The NFLPA creates a realistic Rookie Incentive pay scale for 1st and 2nd rounders. Why I say the NFLPA instead of the team is the association is made up of PLAYERS who have paid the price already. For example... The bottom 10 STARTING QB's in the NFL make an average of 3 mil a year (NO RESEARCH JUST A FIGURE) Then the incentives come in 85 QB rating or higher $1Mil, 60% completion rate or higher $1Mil, 3000yd or More $1Mil. Less than 15 int $1 Mil. Now total up these incentives and all 1st round QB picks Get 3 Mil a year with incentives up to 7mil but the kicker is the team is tagged with 7 Mil against the Cap. On and on for the other positions. They do this for round 2 as well. Lower starting salaries, lower incentives. This gets complicated but the whole scale is mandated by representatives of the NFLPA. Rounds 3 through 7 is set by position with NO incentives. The cool thing is NO AGENTS. The player is picked his salary is already set. He signs the deal and shows up for mini-camps. Though the initital contract is for 4 or 5 years the player after 2 yrs can negotiate a better salary after they have proven themselves. Whatcha Think.

Go Panthers

Other then the bold I like it. But instead of 4 or 5 years it should be 3. You don't need to intentionally add a provision that bacscically encourages holdouts.

[dexterpyro]

I heard some things about an initial 3 year non negotiable, no incentive contract. The player and team can option to renegotiate after year 2. If they chose not to. Player can become RFA after year 3.

Lets say the first pick in the draft would get 5.75 million contract over 3 years. If the player does good the team or player can chose to renogotiate the contract during FA period in year 2. If they chose not to the option is there for year 4 or be a RFA, after year 4 the player is an UFA

[Squirrel]

Seriously dont think they are going to get a rookie salary cap.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Are you kidding? Have you not been paying attention. The vets are fed up with it. I bet when the CBA comes out the union establishes one. It benefits the owners and the players. Watch and see.

Go Panthers