If we take Luke Kuechly who plays MLB?

[CPF4LIFE]

besides the fact that he only played one year at safety and that was mainly to spy vick before they put him in his normal position, yea, they've been studs, but we burn through them way too quickly. I mean just look at all the games we've gotten out of 3 first round picks at linebacker

in 7 regular seasons Morgan missed 53 games, mainly due to concussions (11th overall pick). The games he's played in amount to roughly 3.5 seasons

we got 3.5 seasons from Davis as a starter (14th overall pick)

and before Beason's achilles blew out which may not allow him to ever play at the level he's been performing again we got 4 seasons worth of starts (25th overall)

so far that's about 11 seasons combined. Cam, another first round selection at QB, is probably going to last us like 14 years. Peppers gave us 8 years and we'd be up to ten if he was willing to stay here, and Gross has given us more than 8 1/2. None of these guys are linebackers.

why do we assume it's just going to be different with drafting another linebacker in the first (now going to be a 9th pick, when the investments we've made at that position have not lasted nearly long enough to justify a first round selection. All we've gotten out of our "stud" linebackers in a long term scope are short careers.

This is a problem you'd generally use FA to fix, not core player drafting investments

This

[panthers55]

besides the fact that he only played one year at safety and that was mainly to spy vick before they put him in his normal position, yea, they've been studs, but we burn through them way too quickly. I mean just look at all the games we've gotten out of 3 first round picks at linebacker

in 7 regular seasons Morgan missed 53 games, mainly due to concussions (11th overall pick). The games he's played in amount to roughly 3.5 seasons

we got 3.5 seasons from Davis as a starter (14th overall pick)

and before Beason's achilles blew out which may not allow him to ever play at the level he's been performing again we got 4 seasons worth of starts (25th overall)

so far that's about 11 seasons combined. Cam, another first round selection at QB, is probably going to last us like 14 years. Peppers gave us 8 years and we'd be up to ten if he was willing to stay here, and Gross has given us more than 8 1/2. None of these guys are linebackers.

why do we assume it's just going to be different with drafting another linebacker in the first (now going to be a 9th pick), when the investments we've made at that position have not lasted nearly long enough to justify a first round selection. All we've gotten out of our "stud" linebackers in a long term scope are short careers.

This is a problem you'd generally use FA to fix, not core player drafting investments

You are right in the fact that we haven't had good luck with our linebackers in general through the draft or free agency. Perhpas the one exception is Anderson who we picked up in the third round. But I don't think that makes it less useful of a pick or suggests it was wasted. It suggests that maybe we need to keep refilling the tank and adding depth since you can't tell how long they will last. Maybe you don't have to always use a first rounder but certainly the top 3 rounds seems to be able to get you good enough talent to start. Maybe we should use some of those second rounder picks. After all getting 3 or 4 productive years from them would be a bonus over some of the second round picks we have made in the past several years.

[frash.exe]

You are right in the fact that we haven't had good luck with our linebackers in general through the draft or free agency. Perhpas the one exception is Anderson who we picked up in the third round. But I don't think that makes it less useful of a pick or suggests it was wasted. It suggests that maybe we need to keep refilling the tank and adding depth since you can't tell how long they will last. Maybe you don't have to always use a first rounder but certainly the top 3 rounds seems to be able to get you good enough talent to start. Maybe we should use some of those second rounder picks. After all getting 3 or 4 productive years from them would be a bonus over some of the second round picks we have made in the past several years.

basically what I'm saying is that when you build your core through the draft (and SOLELY through the draft in Hurney's case), there is a higher standard to meet for returns. Not only does a player need to perform very well, but for many years. First round picks are pretty big investments to begin with, but for the Panthers they are especially precious. We cannot afford our first round picks even missing chunks of seasons, let alone busting because look at our defense without Beason last year. Our chances of winning go down every time our linebackers get hurt because we've not invested more first round picks in any other part of the defense, and when 2 of them have gotten re-injured in the same place consistently, and one has suffered one of the worst injuries you can sustain for getting back to 100%, I can't get on board another first round pick on a linebacker. Historically we've gotten much better longevity out of any first round pick that wasn't a linebacker or running back with the exception of Otah (but that's because he's a big 330lb vag lol)

Other teams can tolerate first round busts because they don't build their core through the draft and utilize free agency more.

as far as the 2nd round is concerned however, I can definitely get on board with us drafting a linebacker there

[panthers55]

basically what I'm saying is that when you build your core through the draft (and SOLELY through the draft in Hurney's case), there is a higher standard to meet for returns. Not only does a player need to perform very well, but for many years. First round picks are pretty big investments to begin with, but for the Panthers they are especially precious. We cannot afford our first round picks even missing chunks of seasons, let alone busting because look at our defense without Beason last year. Our chances of winning go down every time our linebackers get hurt because we've not invested more first round picks in any other part of the defense, and when 2 of them have gotten re-injured in the same place consistently, and one has suffered one of the worst injuries you can sustain for getting back to 100%, I can't get on board another first round pick on a linebacker. Historically we've gotten much better longevity out of any first round pick that wasn't a linebacker or running back with the exception of Otah (but that's because he's a big 330lb vag lol)

Other teams can tolerate first round busts because they don't build their core through the draft and utilize free agency more.

as far as the 2nd round is concerned however, I can definitely get on board with us drafting a linebacker there

I did a search to see how long the average first rounder played in the NFL and it was 9.3 years. Then I looked to see the average length of a career of a guy who had gone to one probowl and it was 11 years. So the argument could be made that finding the best talent in the first round and a potential probowler would offer the best statistical chance of finding a long term player for your team.

On the other hand I couldn't find it broken down by position so we could see if that longevity was all offensive and defensive linemen plus quarterbacks and how many linebackers were included. It could vary by position quite a bit. Plus the question could be how productive where they throughout their career or did they stick around a long time because they were a first rounder no one wanted to give up on too soon versus a lower pick with as much talent who could have abandoned sooner because they has much less at stake. Beason could come back and play for another 5 years even if he was only 50% of his former self.

[jarhead]

basically what I'm saying is that when you build your core through the draft (and SOLELY through the draft in Hurney's case), there is a higher standard to meet for returns. Not only does a player need to perform very well, but for many years. First round picks are pretty big investments to begin with, but for the Panthers they are especially precious. We cannot afford our first round picks even missing chunks of seasons, let alone busting because look at our defense without Beason last year. Our chances of winning go down every time our linebackers get hurt because we've not invested more first round picks in any other part of the defense, and when 2 of them have gotten re-injured in the same place consistently, and one has suffered one of the worst injuries you can sustain for getting back to 100%, I can't get on board another first round pick on a linebacker. Historically we've gotten much better longevity out of any first round pick that wasn't a linebacker or running back with the exception of Otah (but that's because he's a big 330lb vag lol)

Other teams can tolerate first round busts because they don't build their core through the draft and utilize free agency more.

as far as the 2nd round is concerned however, I can definitely get on board with us drafting a linebacker there

I cant argue with our luck drafting lbs.Maybe we should just draft old lbs on one year deals.I think an argument could be made that the postions receiving the punishment and dishing out the punishment would be more prone to injury but I do not have the facts to back that up.

I do understand that we have built through the draft but looking at our roster and needs we will be rebuilding for several more years if we just rely on the draft.

[jarhead]

1. Beason isn't know as a injury prone player and hadn't missed a game until last season. So sue me if I trust his opinion on his injury situation. It short sighted of you to even put him and TD in the same catagory when it comes to injuries.

2. Zach Brown, Mychal Kendricks, Terrell Manning*, Keenan Robinson, Nigel Bradham, Sean Spence, Lavonte David, and Ronnell Lewis* all I think can come in a be a upagrade at either will or Sam over every thing we have after Anderson and TD.

Again I like Kuechly but Curry also had the college resume and production and has been a bust any player can be. I'd rather spend a later pick on this position.

3. Same thing you said about Beason and Davis can be said about Edwards so it's not a sure thing with him. Plus I like Mcclain and thought he played better as the season went along. But Fua sucked all year and i don't think he has the frame or athletic ability to do what we need him to do. He maybe a ok rotation guy 1 day but i don't count on him making it.

Well you are wrong about Beason. His achilles will never be the same.He will have problems with it as long as he plays.He may be able to play at a high enough level to start but the foot will never be the same.In 36% of cases it is career ending and for the others thier playing time is usually cut in half.What we dont know is how much less of a player he will be.His flexibilty in that foot will most certainly never be the same , hence the basis for the thread.

[Edward Teach]

If we draft a LB with the 9 overall pick in the draft, I will do my best to never support this team again until Hurney is gone.

Bye...But, I have a feeling, you will be back.

I have never understood this mentality. :banghead:

[OneBadassCat]

I think Davis will actually be back to full form. The uncertainty is with Beason though I believe if anyone can come back a 100% from it it's him. Davis aside from his knee is probably pretty healthy considering how much playing time he's missed. His last ACL injury was pretty much a fluke.

We do need to solidify the LB spot. Anderson is a good LB and we are very lucky that he's here to bring consistency. But we do need to sign some guys.

Maybe Rivera has some 3-4 hybrid schemes to mask our depth at LB this year.

[megadeth078]

I think Davis will actually be back to full form. The uncertainty is with Beason though I believe if anyone can come back a 100% from it it's him. Davis aside from his knee is probably pretty healthy considering how much playing time he's missed. His last ACL injury was pretty much a fluke.

Hurney's logic for the past two seasons...

screw that

[Actionman0z]

I like kuechly and all but don't make him out to be somthing he's not. He isn't Pat Willis. Kuechly is a very good player but Curry had a very good career at wake forrest and was a very good prospect at the LB position. I think Kuechly is a very good player but he isn't a game changer.

And Poe, Brockers, Cox, Rieff, and Jenkins are? SMH.

[iamcline]

Just want you Luke fans to know, once the Panthers pass on him...I am going to explode into an insane fit of laughter at those of you doubting Beason.

[CRA]

Just want you Luke fans to know, once the Panthers pass on him...I am going to explode into an insane fit of laughter at those of you doubting Beason.

It isn't about just doubting Beason....our LB corp in general is projected thin and questionable. The JJ 4-3 is dependent on this group....Luke has the talent to potentially step in at any spot where needed

[csx]

Just want you Luke fans to know, once the Panthers pass on him...I am going to explode into an insane fit of laughter at those of you doubting Beason.

OMG are you going to LOL and ROTFLYAO?

[iamcline]

OMG are you going to LOL and ROTFLYAO?

Nope. I am going far worse. I will unleash the....