Brockers=overrated?

[CRA]

I can agree with that, I heard of the guy but he wasn't on my radar before his combine. Aside from what we think he will go in the 1st round though.

he was slated mid to late first before the combine...his potential and freak physical skill set already was acknowledged.

[rippadonn]

They have to focus on the D line, it's been beyond time to do that and since Marty won't get a top free agent, this is our only hope to get a top DT.

I'd take my chances with LB this year since we still have Gaither, Senn and Anderson.

[CRA]

They have to focus on the D line, it's been beyond time to do that and since Marty won't get a top free agent, this is our only hope to get a top DT.

I'd take my chances with LB this year since we still have Gaither, Senn and Anderson.

question is are the DTs in this class that good? Drafting a DT with a #9 pick doesn't mean your DT issues are solved. Doesn't mean you are getting a Suh. The Jags got to draft a QB high last year but the QBs just werent that good as some drafts provide that high.

with what we assume Rivera wants to do on D...gambling w/ Gaither, Senn, and Anderson is definately a gamble. What we saw last year was a D being abused and Rivera trying to stop the bleeding....not his scheme in action. He needs real talent at LB.

We have a pretty big need at LB. If there is a really good kid w/ good odds of playing at this level I don't see passing on him for a much bigger gamble at a position that is a slightly bigger need.

[rippadonn]

#9 isn't any different than #15 this draft if you need D line all the top talent will be going in that range or there abouts (Coples, Poe, Brockers, Ingram) so why not any of these guys at #9?

If you're questioning this class only time will tell. People thought last years QB class was crap and they were wrong.

[CRA]

#9 isn't any different than #15 this draft if you need D line all the top talent will be going in that range or there abouts (Coples, Poe, Brockers, Ingram) so why not any of these guys at #9?

If you're questioning this class only time will tell. People thought last years QB class was crap and they were wrong.

again, we don't just have a need at DT. We have needs all over the D. There are likely better players and ones who can play at a high level soon at other spots. Nothing wrong w/ bringing in one more vet DT and sorting out what we have there for now.

Last years draft class was crap at QB. Ponder and Gabbert had no business going that high. They went high b/c people needed QBs and that was all there was. That is why so many said to either gamble on Cam or stay away from QB.

[rippadonn]

again, we don't just have a need at DT. We have needs all over the D. There are likely better players and ones who can play at a high level soon at other spots. Nothing wrong w/ bringing in one more vet DT and sorting out what we have there for now.

Last years draft class was crap at QB. Ponder and Gabbert had no business going that high. They went high b/c people needed QBs and that was all there was. That is why so many said to either gamble on Cam or stay away from QB.

The Red Rifle moved the curve up for that class so I wouldn't call it crap for now. Ponder was a slighlty above average rookie QB.

[CRA]

The Red Rifle moved the curve up for that class so I wouldn't call it crap for now. Ponder was a slighlty above average rookie QB.

Red Rifle was drafted where he should of been...and Cincy got a decent QB. The Bengals high draft pick that was talented enough to deserve the pick also made Dalton what he was to a large degree.

[pantherj]

If I recall, Fox had a pretty good record against Brees/Payton...not sure he had great DT play during that span.

Brees is also good at getting the ball out quick. Good luck covering Sproles, Graham, etc. with a weak LB corp.

Some of Fox' teams had very good DTs, and some of them didn't. No need to go into when the Panthers were at their peak, and why.

It's interesting that you mention the Colts and the Saints, two teams that place a premium on preventing QB pressure up the middle. On most Saints and Colts teams, you can usually find a common thread, the LG, OC, and RG are in the Pro Bowl due to their pass blocking skills. Can you think of a team that was not that good overall, but was able to play the Colts tough with Manning in his prime? I can. The Jags. How did they do it? The Jags had 3 time Pro Bowl DT Marcus Stroud using anabolic steroids, and 2 time Pro Bowl DT John Henderson paired together. Their combined pressure up the middle helped to limit the Colts explosive offense, usually keeping the Jags in the game.

Brees is human, and the quicker he is forced to get the ball out, the more likely he is to throw a pick or incomplete pass. Also, throwing deep passes that take time to develope are not so easy when you can't step into your throw due to pressure up the middle.

We don't have a weak LB corps.

[CRA]

We don't have a weak LB corps.

We had a VERY weak one last year.

If Davis is done, Beason is hampered by his injury and isn't the same, and we lose Connor....

then yeah, in a scheme that puts a focus on LB play (Fox's didn't to the the way a JJ 4-3 does) we would be weak there.

[pantherj]

We had a VERY weak one last year.

If Davis is done, Beason is hampered by his injury and isn't the same, and we lose Connor....

then yeah, in a scheme that puts a focus on LB play (Fox's didn't to the the way a JJ 4-3 does) we would be weak there.

I'm very worried about our injuries at LB.

I want Rivera to have exactly the LBs he wants for his scheme.

[Actionman0z]

I have a feeling we are going to be bringing a lot of LB's to camp. Its another reason I think we will cut, and resign TD. It will not hurt bringing him back for smaller amount if he gets injured.

[weymouthst]

There seems to be quite a bit of depth in this draft. Panthers will have to see who drops to them, if anyone, then just take BPA. Offense or defense, the 2nd round will have quality depth, so the BPA choice in the first seems like the best way to go. Poe did have a stand out combine, but there are corners and safeties that have stood out as well, along with a couple WR's and linebackers. Basically, i dont think the panthers can make a wrong choice on the position, only the player. Lets hope they evaluate these guys correctly.

[panthers55]

The truth here is that we have big needs for a pass rusher so we do need a 3 technique DT who can rush the passer. If Davis and Beason come back and are healthy we don't have a big need for linebackers. If Hogan can do the job we don't have a big need at number 2 corner.

I would be fine with a pass rushing DE, a pocket collapsing DT or a versatile linebacker who can fill in any spot if Davis goes down or Beason has a setback. And I would be fine with a corner who can solidify the secondary.

When I look at what we need and who is out there I am looking for who is a game changer in the first who we can't get later in the draft.

For me that guy in Kuechly. He is an elite talent and can do things that Brown and others in the second can't do. I love Poe but have some issues with his production and am concerned that Brockers will take years to develop. I also think that guys like Still for example are not big drop offs and can be had later in the draft. I think corner is very deep as well. remember we don't need a shutdown cover corner to play zone. We need a good zone corner who can play in our concept. Those guys can be had in the second, third or even the fourth round.

I know my thinking has changed over the past week but the more I think about it, the more I am worried about linebacker and I don't think that we can expect both Davis and Beason to come back 100%. I would love if they did but lets be honest, how many years have we been lucky with injuries.

The last time we had a Butkus award winner at linebacker in Dan Morgan we went to the Superbowl. If he could have stayed healthy he had all the talent. Kuechly has all the talent and athleticism of Morgan but isn't as physical which may be a good thing. Morgan played too physical which caused all the concussions.

Will we pick him up?? Probably not. Should we pick him up? I think yes others think no. I guess we will all know the answer to that question by week 4 or 5 of the regular season.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Allow me to say this and it will seque nicely into responding this post:

OLB is a plug and play position. If you stick a great DL in front of an average LB squad, what you have is a dominant front 7. If you stick an elite LB corp behind a poor DL, all you get is an average defense and a nice long IR list.

So with Kuechly, we get a LB who would have to be taught to rush the passer, become refined at doing so, and hope that he had a talent for it, and then still have zero help in front of him. The list of non-pass rushing LBs taken the last ten years or so was posted earlier, and I encourage you to go back and look at it. It's a small list for a reason- OLBs just don't carry much value early in the draft. The fact that Kuechly plays the middle is part of the reason his value is so high to begin with. It just isn't a mutually beneficial move for either side. You move him outside and takes away the oodles of potential he has as a Mike in another team's Cover 2, where he's best suited anyways. As for us, it just doesn't aid us in a way another defensive prospect could. The impact he would have on improving the defense is minimal compared to what we would get out of a DT or even a CB.

It's a star crossed love story of a defense needy team seeing a talented D prospect, but the stars just don't align the way either side wishes they would.

The only reason CRA wants him is because he's overly concerned with "BPA" which I can see you dont agree with.

I will grant you that I interchanged the Will linebacker who blitzes roughly 10-15% with the Sam linebacker who blitzes roughly 50% of the time. We all agree that the MLB blitzes 65% of the time.

No we are not talking about a guy who isn't valuable 50% of the time unless you think that he can't learn to blitz. Because he didn't do it in college because of their scheme, it doesn't mean he can't do it in the NFl. After all he is fast, instinctual, intelligent, strong which all translates to being to do whatever he needs to be able to do. He was the best linebacker in college last year not a one trick pony. As for only having straight line speed go back and read the analyses which say he excels in changing direction, has good lateral speed, has a quick first step etc. For some strange reason you seem to want to discount his skills when he was a great linebacker in college. We must be talking about diffirent guys. I am talking about Keuchly who blew up the combine and was the butkus award winner making him the best linebacker in college. Whoever you are talking about is not the same player. I am talking about a guy with a 38 inch vertical leap (third best), a broad jump of 123 (5th best), 3 cone drill of 6.92 (6th best) and a shuttle of 4.12 (4th). But you don't think he is athletic???

What you assume is that he can't play the position of OLB and you glum on one tiny aspect of his draft analysis that reflects more what he has not been asked to do not rather than what he is capable of doing. Plus you confuse what was said about him as a 3-4 outside linebacker with what would be expected of him as a 4-3 linebacker. A 3-4 outside linebacker would be expected to rush the passer and take on DEs versus what a linebacker in a 4-3 does which is shoot the gap or worry about a chip block from a TE or running back. His speed and strength and agility should increase the likelihood he makes the play not diminish it. Rushing the passer in a 3-4 versus blitzing in a 4-3 are worlds apart. Plus you say he would be a great middle linebacker and they blitz 65% of the time yet he would be out of place if he played outside and they blitz 50% or 15% depending of if they play Sam or Will???? Yet he can't blitz and that would be a liability????? He would great for the Mike and that requires him to drop into a middle zone on the pass and play the run in the box but average at best covering the outside zone and runs around the edges. Yet his analysis says he is good in pass coverage, can cover TEs and running backs who typically are in the flats or are on the edges in a screen???????

Given that the Will linebacker is considered the most athletic of the three 4-3 linebackers and many experts think that it is the most important of the linebackers in a 4-3, lets say we make him the Will not the Sam. After all we tried to do that with Beason and he struggled. Putting Keuchly there would be an upgrade. And this article about the 3-4 suggests that an inside 3-4 linebacker would easily translate to either a Mike or a Will in a 4-3.

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/265696

So tell me again why he would be out of place in our scheme. And what scheme would he be great in?? An inside 3-4 linebacker?? Yeah they blitz sometimes up to 40-50% of the time. or are we saying that the butkus award winner wouldn't fit into any scheme in the NFL???