Brockers=overrated?

[DaCityKats]

we speak value, and a LB without pass rushing abilities is not worth a top 10 pick.

[CRA]

we speak value, and a LB without pass rushing abilities is not worth a top 10 pick.

But a DT who can't play or produce at a high level is worthy...or this the part where you assume one guy who is physically impressive can do more and the other cant?

Do we assume a 100% Beason sucks giant balls and has zero ability to rush the passer as well?

[DaCityKats]

But a DT who can't play or produce at a high level is worthy...or this the part where you assume one guy who is physically impressive can do more and the other cant?

Do we assume a 100% Beason sucks giant balls and has zero ability to rush the passer as well?

what DT are you speaking of? and why would you put Beason blitzing when he is better playing coverage? im not saying he cant do that, but if he could why would BC not utilizing that aspect of his game?

[CRA]

what DT are you speaking of? and why would you put Beason blitzing when he is better playing coverage? im not saying he cant do that, but if he could why would BC not utilizing that aspect of his game?

BC runs a scheme like any other team. Players do what is asked of them. Doesn't mean they can't do more. Heard it last year with Cam....Cam can't do this and that....and the correct answer is Cam was only asked to do X and Y.

From a skill set perspective, there is no reason to assume Luke can only do what BC asked of him. He did what they needed. Plus, there is a realistic chance Beason might not be a top tier MLB this team can count on going forward. A talented LB added to a questionable roster would be a good thing...especially since Rivera's ideal scheme puts a lot on them.

[panthers55]

what DT are you speaking of? and why would you put Beason blitzing when he is better playing coverage? im not saying he cant do that, but if he could why would BC not utilizing that aspect of his game?

In a 4-3 there are not linebackers who rush the passer in the traditional sense of putting their hand in the dirt in a 3 point stance similat to a typical 3-4. Even then although they are still called an OLB, guys like James Harrison are really defensive ends who rush the quarterback the majority of the time. In a 4-3 when a linebacker goes after a QB it is usually from a 2 point stance and is considered a blitz. Guys like Kuechly would be excellent blitzers given his strength, speed and instincts for making plays.

As for why Kuechly didn't blitz, you answered it when you discussed Beason. Kuechly had morre than double the tackles of his nearest teammate and was a huge part of their defense. Why would you blitz him when you had few others who could make plays. In the NFL it is entirely different. All of the players were all-stars in college. BC doesn't play the aggressive scheme that we do. I don't know if it was out of necessity or desire.

[DaCityKats]

BC runs a scheme like any other team. Players do what is asked of them. Doesn't mean they can't do more. Heard it last year with Cam....Cam can't do this and that....and the correct answer is Cam was only asked to do X and Y.

From a skill set perspective, there is no reason to assume Luke can only do what BC asked of him. He did what they needed. Plus, there is a realistic chance Beason might not be a top tier MLB this team can count on going forward. A talented LB added to a questionable roster would be a good thing...especially since Rivera's ideal scheme puts a lot on them.

thats my point as well. if Poe says his responsibility was to play gap control and not get up field how can him not having more sacks or pressures be his fault if that what was asked of him.Cox is a pass rusher and is creeping up boards as well.

im not assuming he cant blitz, but it was just something he was not asked to do since he is better in coverage. and when has a LB that is better in coverage went top 10 and had good value? you assuming Beason might not can come back, but what about Edwards coming of biceps tears and 30+?

In a 4-3 there are not linebackers who rush the passer in the traditional sense of putting their hand in the dirt in a 3 point stance similat to a typical 3-4. Even then although they are still called an OLB, guys like James Harrison are really defensive ends who rush the quarterback the majority of the time. In a 4-3 when a linebacker goes after a QB it is usually from a 2 point stance and is considered a blitz. Guys like Kuechly would be excellent blitzers given his strength, speed and instincts for making plays.

As for why Kuechly didn't blitz, you answered it when you discussed Beason. Kuechly had morre than double the tackles of his nearest teammate and was a huge part of their defense. Why would you blitz him when you had few others who could make plays. In the NFL it is entirely different. All of the players were all-stars in college. BC doesn't play the aggressive scheme that we do. I don't know if it was out of necessity or desire.

i do know the difference between a 3-4 and 4-3 scheme and what each position job is. but this defense wants to be an attacking d, and if he is better at covering he will stay covering and not be blitzing. my point is there is no value to a LB (in the top 10)if that is his strong spot(covering), and we are just assuming he can get after the passer based on his combine numbers.

and Beason wasnt a top 10 pick, neither was Willis.

[Shotgun]

I bet our QB could put up 225 more times :D

[CRA]

thats my point as well. if Poe says his responsibility was to play gap control and not get up field how can him not having more sacks or pressures be his fault if that what was asked of him.Cox is a pass rusher and is creeping up boards as well.

im not assuming he cant blitz, but it was just something he was not asked to do since he is better in coverage. and when has a LB that is better in coverage went top 10 and had good value? you assuming Beason might not can come back, but what about Edwards coming of biceps tears and 30+?

i do know the difference between a 3-4 and 4-3 scheme and what each position job is. but this defense wants to be an attacking d, and if he is better at covering he will stay covering and not be blitzing. my point is there is no value to a LB (in the top 10)if that is his strong spot(covering), and we are just assuming he can get after the passer based on his combine numbers.

and Beason wasnt a top 10 pick, neither was Willis.

No, when people say Poe wasn't highly productive in college they aren't saying that b/c he didn't register a lot of sacks.

Poe and Kueckly were both asked to play a certain role for their team...Kueckly played his role at a much higher level. He simply at this stage is a better football player. That could change in the future but Kueckly in addition to being better now also has a great physical skill set (which is what people are banking on w/ Poe)

[panthers55]

i do know the difference between a 3-4 and 4-3 scheme and what each position job is. but this defense wants to be an attacking d, and if he is better at covering he will stay covering and not be blitzing. my point is there is no value to a LB (in the top 10)if that is his strong spot(covering), and we are just assuming he can get after the passer based on his combine numbers.

and Beason wasnt a top 10 pick, neither was Willis.

It is strange you use the logic that Poe didn't rush the passer because he was in a 2 gap read and react scheme and say that he could if he were in a different scheme but can't undestand the same concept when talking about Kuechly. It isn't that he is better at coverage, but that he can do whatever he is asked to do due to his athleticism similar to Poe. The difference is that there is a legitimate question about how Poe could be so athletic and still not dominate his competition. Kuechly on the other hand led the nation in tackles the last 2 years even after teams gameplanned to take him out of plays, run away from him, etc. What can be assumed is that since he has measurables like a Patrick Willis but showed significantly more production at the college level, he will be similarly productive when he gets to the pro level. Will that be the case? No one knows for sure but like Cam showed last year, players can learn to do more than they were asked in college if they have athleticism and desire. Kuechly has both of those in spades.

[panthers55]

I bet our QB could put up 225 more times :D

He didn't do the bench press at the combine so it is hard to say........

[jtnc]

Nope not wasting a top 10 pick on LB that doesn't have pass rushing abilities, Rivera has stressed pass rush and the secondary. Don't even know why people are entertaining this, cause it'll never happen.

[CRA]

Nope not wasting a top 10 pick on LB that doesn't have pass rushing abilities, Rivera has stressed pass rush and the secondary. Don't even know why people are entertaining this, cause it'll never happen.

okay, with that same logic.

We are not wasting a top 10 pick on a DT from Memphis.

b/c your logic isn't actually talking about abilities it is applying what someone actually did on a football field.

I think LB has potential to be the weakest of all positions on D given the importance placed on the unit...if things don't go well for us in regards to those coming back (and that is realistic).

[CRA]

Seriously, how does Luke NOT have pass rush ability? How many LBs currently on our roster would you say have that ability?

[rayzor]

Kuechly is rated so high not because he plays in the middle but because he is the most talented linebacker in all of football who lead the nation in tackles for the last 2 years and in his first 3 years years in college put up more tackles than anyone in college history. He also added 7 interceptions and 17 passes defended and he is only a junior and is only going to get better.

His freshmen year he played OLB and was second in the NCAA in tackles. He moved inside his sophomore year.His 183 tackles that year was the third most in NCAA history. His 192 this year, the second most ever.

So the reality is that he played OLB and was one of the best at it and did the same thing in the middle.

He not only could start at any of 3 positions but he could back up any of the other linebackers which likely makes hin the most valuable addition we could make not the least.

this passes as an elitist tone? :lol: i guess if you're desperately looking for something you'll find it anywhere.

not my pissing contest so...back on topic.

kuechly...as a freshman, a true freshman, starting in 12 games, he played OLB and (stealing this info from cbs sports)

• named ACC Defensive Rookie of the Year and All-ACC First Team …
  
• named to the FWAA and Sporting News Freshman All-America teams …
  
• SI.com named him a second team All-American …
  
• earned ACC Player of the Week accolades three times …
  
• ranked second in the country in total tackles (158) and solo stops (87) …
  
• had the most tackles by a BC defender since 1993 …
  
• his 12.15 tackles per game was the highest average by any rookie since the NCAA began tracking tackles in 2003 …
  
• recorded 10 or more tackles in the final nine games …
  
• led the Eagles in tackles in 12 of 13 games …
  
• led BC in total tackles, solo tackles, assisted stops (71), tackles for a loss (13.0) and pass break ups (4) …
  

he also had a sack in there as well. now if all you can focus on is just one sack...yeah, i can see how you'd be disappointed. but if you were looking for someone who could play OLB at at a high level in the pros and could ensure that he was going to get to the ball and stop any progress... if you were looking for someone who was a natural for the position who didn't just flash elite potential but played at an elite level every game...who no one would question his taking plays off or his ability to diagnose plays and react quickly to what the offense was doing...you'd take this guy even after his freshman year. people get drafted early based on one year's worth of elite performance all the time. crap, we did it last year.

he had one year of elite OLB production and two years of elite MLB production. he's proven that he is someone that can flat get the job done. he's shown to be probably the most reliable defensive player in this draft.

now if we can get an elite DT prospect at the 9 spot, i'd be happy. but if we were going BPA by need (which OLB is) then we'd be crazy not to at the very least seriously consider this guy. i'm almost at the point where i think we'd be crazy not to take this guy at the 9 spot regardless of who else is there not named claiborne or kalil.

i think he's the most talented defensive player in the draft aside from claiborne and very well could be the smartest defensive player in the draft.

i'm not campaigning for his pick, but unless your mind is singularly focused on one player or just one position (which i most certainly hope and believe that the F.O. and coaching staff is above doing) i can't imagine why anyone would not at least like that pick.