Brockers vs Poe

[Herbert The Love Bug]

despite people in here thinkingthey know how to evaluate talent and thinking they know it all, you can never really know who will be the better of the two until they get into the league and play. you just simply don't know.

[LelouchBritannia]

there's lots of DT talent in this draft class. no, there's not a suh or dareus but then we aren't drafting in the top 5 so it shouldn't be an issue. this isn't the bad/weak class some people think it is.lame excuse. you recruit right and you coach right and you reduce your chances of busting.

other than QB...guess that means we should have esp. avoided QB at first overall last year. quite a few in here bought that crap. funny that many of those thought we should use that pick on a "safer" position like DT.

just because there have been busts at a certain position in the past doesn't mean that they are doomed to repeat. history doesn't have to repeat itself. you see mistakes made in how situations were handled and you do it better.

if they believe DT to be a huge need and something that they believe will help the defense as a whole (both of which is true) and they have a prospect they think has a lot to work with and that can be coached then they take that guy and screw the odds.

There were many circumstances that went into the decision to draft Newton.

1. We had the #1 pick so we had the ability to choose anyone we wanted

2. Clausen was so incredibly bad at quarterback we knew he had no future

3. Cam Newton was probably the best football player in the country last year

4. Cam played against SEC defenses. No pansy Big 12 big 10 or ACC defenses. He did it against the best defenses in the country.

Not only is none of that true for any of the DT prospects. All of them have some serious red flags on the field, we are essentially drafting because we NEED a DT not because they are the BPA or even the NBPA. That's a really bad way to draft when you have needs everywhere on defense, especially when no DT's in this draft have shown any semblance of dominance except at some drills at the combine.

[Ivan The Awesome]

i can say that both of them fua n mcclain are not going to be very good at the end of the day when their careers are over. were you not watching the same carolina team i was last year bc from what i seen, i surely saw no hope in the two of them. i liked kearse n shirely a whole lot more than those other two third rounders.

Corey Irvin was a third rounder. what happend? wasted pick. in the NFL, if you want a real DT, you better find it in the 1st round. and that goes to almost every position in the NFL except kicker n punter

lol So we are basing Fua and McClain's futures over Corey Irvins results?

Um, yeah, that's kinda weak. Also, Not all 1st round DT's pan out. Again I say, you need more than a year. Especially when that year was fubar to begin with. No OTA's, no mini camp, nothing like that to give them any orientation or experience. They are learning on the job. Give them 2-3 years to develop. I'll say this, one of them will not amount to much, right now I can't say which. I'm not a fortune teller. I will also acknowledge they are pure rotational type of DT's. They aren't starter material. Which is why I still don't believe they are wasted picks. You want to know a wasted pick? Everette Brown, Dwayne Jarett.. Those are wasted picks. Also, they are higher than the 3rd round.

[nagai]

game film? youtube vids are game film now?

Ummm yes? Not highlight videos, a collection of all the plays involving that player in the game.

[carolina-chuck]

lol So we are basing Fua and McClain's futures over Corey Irvins results?

Um, yeah, that's kinda weak. Also, Not all 1st round DT's pan out. Again I say, you need more than a year. Especially when that year was fubar to begin with. No OTA's, no mini camp, nothing like that to give them any orientation or experience. They are learning on the job. Give them 2-3 years to develop. I'll say this, one of them will not amount to much, right now I can't say which. I'm not a fortune teller. I will also acknowledge they are pure rotational type of DT's. They aren't starter material. Which is why I still don't believe they are wasted picks. You want to know a wasted pick? Everette Brown, Dwayne Jarett.. Those are wasted picks. Also, they are higher than the 3rd round.

like i said before, at best theyll be is average situational players. i knoe not all 1st round pan out, but its not like you're going to be able to find one of those brady in the 6th every year. its better to try and strike gold in the first than in the third. its all 1st and 2nd round players whose going to shape your franchise. do you believe that we'll go to the superbowl with fua/mcclain starting. id love to have them as 3rd n 4th stringers but Brockers or Poe etc will be major upgrade.

As for everette brown, you could basically compare him to fua/mcclain. imagine if we force him to start right away after pep left like how we did with fua/mcclain, yall wouldnt consider him a bust. you guys would now come up with other reasons to say give him a few more years. brown actually showed more than fua/mcclain in his first year.

if brown and jarrett who were considered high prospects (1st round talents) can turn busts, i wouldnt doubt fua/mcclain will be busts in a heart beat.

[PantherPhann89]

I'd love for us to get a dominant DT, our new Kris Jenkins...But I don't see that happening. I don't see us drafting a DT this year. We just drafted Fua and McClain, Edwards will be back to start and we still have, Neblett, Kearse and Shirley. I think that we'd all agree that the DT position shored up with Kearse and Shirley, so I'd expect it to get better with Edwards and the rotation of his sidekicks. Although I must say that I was not overly impressed with Hardy or even close to being impressed with Munnerlyn. So I'd see us going CB or DE in the 1st and probably LB in the 2nd (depends on availibility).

[pantherclaw]

like many times, ill say it again. "I LOVE POE" but we cant draft him in the 9th spot due to his combine performance. if we are, im guessing we're the next oakland raiders v2.

if he is drafted, it won't be cause his combine performance. Thanks for showing how little you know of the process.

[pantherclaw]

I suspect Brockers ceiling is much higher, but he's also a bigger risk/reward guy then Poe. I think Poe will play in the NFL for many years and be a solid player, but Brockers has the potential to be an all-pro.

Personally, I would take Brockers simply because I believe he has a much higher ceiling. There's a reason why none of us have heard of Poe until now...

i disagree. So does sapp.

Poe's size, strength, and agility is rare.

That projects him with a higher ceiling.

Either pick would be a great addition.

[Riverboat Ron]

I was just curious and compared some combine measurements from a current NFL player and Dontari Poe.

Ht:

6 ft 3⅛ in

6 ft 4 in

Wt:

319 lb

346 lb

Arm length:

33⅜ in

32 in

Hand size:

10⅛ in

9 5/8 in

40-yd dash:

4.93 s

4.98 s

10-yd split:

1.68 s

1.68 s

20-ss:

4.62 s

4.56 s

3-cone:

7.83 s

7.90 s

Vert:

27 in

29.5 in

Broad:

8ft 10in

8ft 9 in

BP:

24 rep

44 rep

Anyone want to take a stab at who the other player is?

[carpanfan96]

^ ndamukong suh is who I would say, but he had 32 reps on the BP.

[JawnyBlaze]

I know the press isn't a deciding factor, but it bothers me that Brockers could only throw up 19. 18 DB's today put up more reps than Brockers did, at roughly 2/3 of his weight. Jstew put up 28. It's a lot about technique for a DT, but there are times where having that extra strength to hold an 2nd blocker for a second or two longer could really make a difference. They were talking on NFLN, and I agree, that your press number shows more about your work ethic than anything else. I dunno, just quite a few red flags for me on a guy I wasn't really high on to begin with.

Those same DBs also put up more reps than a number of All Pro DTs currently in the league and in recent history. The bench press for a DT is like the 40 for a QB. Sure it's nice, and it helps in some situations, but it's not a make or break ability.

[Riverboat Ron]

^ ndamukong suh is who I would say, but he had 32 reps on the BP.

Nope, the guy I'm thinking about came out last year.

[MadHatter]

Those same DBs also put up more reps than a number of All Pro DTs currently in the league and in recent history. The bench press for a DT is like the 40 for a QB. Sure it's nice, and it helps in some situations, but it's not a make or break ability.

Agree to an extent.

The BP does show upper body strength (important to a DT). However, I see the more telling issue is how flat out unprepared for the combine that Brockers was.

He announces that he is not BP'ing or running....then he is...then he puts up terrible numbers.

Strikes me as a guy who did not prepare....thought he would be able to skate on that lack of preparation...got called on it...then was in no man's land.

Poe's great performance and Brockers' terrible performance is not a sole reason to draft or not draft either. But, both are results that will make FO's look much, much closer at them....but for different reasons.

[MadHatter]

Nope, the guy I'm thinking about came out last year.

Dareus