Speaking of taking plays off

[Fireball77]

I'm no expert, self-declared or otherwise but I think there are far more people on here much more critical of Jake than of Pep.

That said, if you have a student with an A level brain who is a B or maybe a C as far as achievement TO POTENTIAL why wouldn't you get more het up over that than you would over a classic overachiever?

[top dawg]

P55, I can respect most of that last argument, but to compare Jake to Roethlisberger is a little bit of a stretch, which just goes to show us why stats don't tell the whole story.

The main difference beween Ben and Jake is that Ben can carry a team on his back (particularly when it matters). The Steelers certainly wouldn't have won either of their last two chmpionships without him. Ben doesn't make you feel nervous everytime he throws the ball (in fact he probably gives the fanbase of the opposition the same fearful nervousness that Jake gives his own fans when he airs it out under pressure).

[top dawg]

I'm no expert, self-declared or otherwise but I think there are far more people on here much more critical of Jake than of Pep.

That said, if you have a student with an A level brain who is a B or maybe a C as far as achievement TO POTENTIAL why wouldn't you get more het up over that than you would over a classic overachiever?

I get your point. I really do. But you really have to get into the head of the underachiever to know if they are truly slacking (particularly after arguably their best performance), especially when the results are better than most. The teacher may also have to claim some of the responsibility for lost potential, if in fact there is a real disparity.

Sometimes an adjustment in level of expectation is necessary, Sometimes you have to give people a little slack. The best judgments and evaluations are fair and equitable---or at the very least even-keeled.

[Fireball77]

I think it's sadder to see a guy like Pep who the sky is the limit for talent wise blame his not reaching his potential on others, though. Especially when you look at guys like JT or Strahan who had/have great athletic ability and went through HCs and DCs and inferior teammates on their line and craptastic TEAMS and still produced year in and year out without playing that card.

Again, I don't hate Pep at all. I wouldn't boo him if I were in attendance at a game. It takes a lot to make me want to boo a guy who plays for a team I root for. I am just quite disappointed by his words either by him or through his agent after this season was over. I feel all FAs have every right to want to leave, and completely understand their not wanting to be tagged. Still, I don't like how this was handeld by his agent and him.

As for Ben, were you as forgiving of his play in 2006 after he had that accident? Most people wrote that whole subpar year off due to it. Why doesn't Jake at least get some of the same breaks applied to him as a highly compensated first round QB who is SUPPOSED to be great and paid like he is even before he has shown a thing in the NFL does? Jake had a season in 2006 that was statistically average, much like Ben's 2008 season was. The Cats had a pathetic run game and a just so so defense, not an alltime great unit like Pitt had in 2008. Jake had pretty big time arm issues that year which he never whined about publicly. Yet Jake was routinely crucified for his play, people were vociferous about his being replaced. Meanwhile Ben, who is one of the top 5 highest paid QBs in the NFL, paid more guaranteed coin than Brady for effs sake, has a pretty average 2008 and it's called a good year? He had some comebacks in 2008 so did Jake, but Ben's year was that much better? That's a bit hypocritical in my book. Jake had a great RB duo to lean on this past year and Ben had an alltime great defense to lean on. What if Jake had a SB like Ben's SB 40? Tell me people wouldn't have burned Jake's jersey for that one. I am not saying YOU in particular have acted this way, it's a general statement.

[CatMan72]

I don't think a guy that plays with the passion that Jake does is capable of taking plays off. If anything, I've felt like Jake needs to calm down a little - but at the end of the day his fire is just a part of who he is and it gets other guys motivated (remember the Bears game).

The fact is, prior to this most recent playoff game - Jake had one of the highest post season passer ratings in the history of the NFL and that doesn't happen by accident. At his best, Jake is brilliant and at his worst he's tough to watch (just like any other QB).

Personally, I think the debacle that was the Cards game was an example of Jake trying to will the Panthers to a win. He locked in on Smitty and you just can't do that. He watched Kurt Warner shred the Panthers in the regular season and believed that for the Panthers to win they would have to put allot of points on the board. I'd like to think that Jake will grow from that experience and become an even better QB.

I agree with others that I don't think Jake at his best is the kind of QB that can consistently put a team on his back and win - but that's okay, if you play solid defense and can run the ball you don't need a QB that can carry the team. No QB likes to think of themselves as a "game manager" but that's what this team needs right now... and Jake has been and can be that guy.

[panthers55]

P55, I can respect most of that last argument, but to compare Jake to Roethlisberger is a little bit of a stretch, which just goes to show us why stats don't tell the whole story.

The main difference beween Ben and Jake is that Ben can carry a team on his back (particularly when it matters). The Steelers certainly wouldn't have won either of their last two chmpionships without him. Ben doesn't make you feel nervous everytime he throws the ball (in fact he probably gives the fanbase of the opposition the same fearful nervousness that Jake gives his own fans when he airs it out under pressure).

This is my problem with your responses. You are well intentioned and you make good arguments most of the time. But for example you are very wrong when you say that the Steelers wouldn't have won either championship without Ben.

This year without the defense bailing him several games this year and against the Ravens in the playoffs, he doesn't get to the Super Bowl. In the Superbowl though he played very well. But his regular season stats were worst than Jakes.

In 2005 he had a great regular season with terrific numbers but wasn't much of a factor in the Superbowl at all. He had a bad game.

If you look at the stats you would know this.

Ben doesn't carry the team on his shoulders, the defense carries the offense on it's shoulders. If Ben throws a pick you don't worry that much because the defense will bail them out and get a turnover or make them settle for a fieldgoal.

[top dawg]

This is my problem with your responses. You are well intentioned and you make good arguments most of the time. But for example you are very wrong when you say that the Steelers wouldn't have won either championship without Ben.

This year without the defense bailing him several games this year and against the Ravens in the playoffs, he doesn't get to the Super Bowl. In the Superbowl though he played very well. But his regular season stats were worst than Jakes.

In 2005 he had a great regular season with terrific numbers but wasn't much of a factor in the Superbowl at all. He had a bad game.

If you look at the stats you would know this.

Ben doesn't carry the team on his shoulders, the defense carries the offense on it's shoulders. If Ben throws a pick you don't worry that much because the defense will bail them out and get a turnover or make them settle for a fieldgoal.

OK, I'll just agree to disagree. I saw the games, I know the intangibles that Ben brought, and brings. He is a champion for good reason. You just can't neglect playoff performances. The Steelers D is historically rough, that's true, but they weren't so overwhelming in either of Ben's trips to the dance.

Ben made clutch plays in each game, particularly the second (with two broken ribs, no less). Did you see Ben make the tackle against the Colts to even propel the Steelers into Super Bowl XL? Come on, dude. you know it's a stretch to compare Jake to Ben. And if you admit it, you cringe when Jake releases the ball under pressure. With Ben, it's the exact opposite.

Give ALL the credit to the defense. Big Ben haters are reluctant to give him his due. It's quite funny that only people outside of Steeler Nation use anything they can to devalue Ben. The truth of the matter is that the Steelers have pretty much always had "top" defenses (give or take a couple of years) and a solid running game for the last decade, and what has gotten them over the hump is the play of Ben Roethlisberger.

[Fireball77]

Did you see Ben make the tackle against the Pats to even propel the Steelers into Super Bowl XL?

No, because it was against the Colts. I would think a Steelers fan would know that.

[top dawg]

No, because it was against the Colts. I would think a Steelers fan would know that.

You got me. Must be 41 catching up with me. How could I forget Manning looking on in disbelief, bordering on disgust, on the sidelines?