Speaking of taking plays off

[frash.exe]

Actually I am a psychological expert who can tell alot about people by what they say and write. Not only that but I know things about you that you don't. Why? Because we go around telling things to others based on what we want them to know or more often we try to hide the things we don't want people to know about us. There is one fatal flaw with that though. The things that you think you are hiding so well, are readily apparent to anyone who even takes time to casually read things you write.

Sometimes if you want to learn about yourself listen to others. You are actually not nearly as good a judge of your character as you believe. None of us are. We see what we want to see not the way we appear to others. Ignore me if you like. I am just one opinion. But when you hear the same thing out of other's mouths as well it is a consensus.

As for your avatar, yeah, I saw the movie twice. Do you identify with a guy who developed brain damage from too many punches to the head as a descriptor of your communication skills. Or is the striking out at everyone with little provocation that you identify with??

You get a PhD for that? You must be sitting on some fortune.

No I've never heard someone say I was a negative person. I believe I can accomplish anything I set my mind to. I'm out 7 days a week at either work or school and I'm trying to maximize my potential the best I can. Was that at all close to what you assumed?

I'm positive on a lot of areas about the Panthers. I think linebacker is solid, Beason's one of the best linebackers in the league. Smith's own reputation precedes him, Williams will continue dominating, etc. I think Marshall's ready to start at corner. But I also think DT needs bolstering. Is it negative to think that DT is weak? Because about 98% of people here would like our first draft pick to be DT. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people haven't invested at all as much support for Damione Lewis as they have for Delhomme.

Don't damn me if I think the organization's outlook on QBing is a little, ...self limiting.

Jake LaMotta never developed brain damage. His daughter's a neurologist and made no diagnoses of brain damage.http://www.sicilianculture.com/news/bodyblow.htm

I picked his fighting nickname because we share a common ethnic background if you really desire to know.

[frash.exe]

Then who would you bring in to replace/back up Delhomme who is available right now?

At this point?

Whoever I select to back him up this year I'm not going to use to replace him, unless he really shows me something. There are some young options in the mid round in the draft.

What I'm saying is, neither of two extremes are good ideas. Doing everything in your power isn't smart, but not doing anything isn't either.

Keep an eye on Jason Campbell. If he doesn't strike a deal with the Skins to keep him in DC, we could make a play for him in 2010.

[Fireball77]

you make a compelling point.

however, I mean, we did see Matt Cassel wasn't such a bad contingency plan for the Pats just this past year. The Eagles have pretty much been able to keep their playoff hopes alive when McNabb has gone down, and it's happened plenty of times.

Cassel had a nice year but he did start out really rocky. And don't forget that he too had a nice offense around him. When you have a good offense around a guy, you can afford for that one guy to not be all world. Had Brady gone down any year prior to 2008, they would likely had a very, very tough time having a winning year. Their backups were immortals like Rohan Davey (WHO???), Kliff Kingsbury (ditto) and as we all know, the immortal Vinny T, and Mitchell, and Huard (who may have been ok, but who knows?). They don't draft QBs in the first round, they pick up a guy pretty much every year in round 3+ and try to develop them. They usually like a vet in there too. I think that's a good model and it is similar to what Carolina has now. Developmental guy=Moore. Veteran with starting experience=McCown.

I don't think McNabb is all that honestly, but yeah, they have been ok at times when he has gone down, partly because they have usually had a pretty good defense and Garcia knows how to play in a WCO. Feely did a decent job too, especially in his first stint in Philly. I do think part of this is coaching and playcalling too. Unless people honestly think that Cassel is almost as good as Brady is because they still were 11-5 without Brady.

But as far as that's concerned, neither Brady nor Manning are as much a liability on the field as Delhomme is. They are both wayyy more consistent and have a hard-earned stronghold on their starting jobs. Delhomme had already been starter for over 3 years before he got banged up at the end of '06, and 4 by the time he got hurt in '07. Fox has had plenty of time to get a pretty good QB in but sometimes it's the system that plays a factor as well. Leftwich played very well as a backup to Roethlisberger, and when called upon he didn't screw up. Charlie Batch even, when he was in Pittsburgh in 2006 he helped keep the Steelers competitive. Our QB play was so pathetic when Delhomme got hurt in 06 the only game we won without Delhomme was one where the pass/run ratio was something like 7/52.

When you're comparing Sorgi to someone like Manning of course there's going to be a dropoff. But Delhomme hasn't exactly set as high a bar as Peyton.

I wasn't trying to compare them to Jake, just give examples of my point that it's tough to devote those kind of resources to talent at that position (Actually, to any depth when you have one of the highest paid QBs on earth like Indy does which is why I hate that way of building a team, but I digress). I thought you were more talking about backup rather than heir apparent as your use of "stronghold on the position" seems to suggest so I guess that's my bad. I do agree that it isn't impossible to have a decent backup (only that it's harder than at any other position on the field) and that Carolina hadn't in recent years, but I also think that Moore & McCown are capable. So I view them as improvements to that end. I am also not of the opinion that Fox and Hurney suck because they haven't had luck with any of those guys (backups), I just think it's that hard to do that I cut them some slack on it. Though I do admit I never thought Carr would be a good answer.

[panthers55]

You get a PhD for that? You must be sitting on some fortune.

No I've never heard someone say I was a negative person. I believe I can accomplish anything I set my mind to. I'm out 7 days a week at either work or school and I'm trying to maximize my potential the best I can. Was that at all close to what you assumed?

I'm positive on a lot of areas about the Panthers. I think linebacker is solid, Beason's one of the best linebackers in the league. Smith's own reputation precedes him, Williams will continue dominating, etc. I think Marshall's ready to start at corner. But I also think DT needs bolstering. Is it negative to think that DT is weak? Because about 98% of people here would like our first draft pick to be DT. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people haven't invested at all as much support for Damione Lewis as they have for Delhomme.

Don't damn me if I think the organization's outlook on QBing is a little, ...self limiting.

Jake LaMotta never developed brain damage. His daughter's a neurologist and made no diagnoses of brain damage.http://www.sicilianculture.com/news/bodyblow.htm

I picked his fighting nickname because we share a common ethnic background if you really desire to know.

I met Jake and talked to him and attributed his poor speaking skills to brain damage, guess it was just ignorance. Then again education wasn't a big priority in the 50s for a fighter. Didn't know his daughter has MS. Ironic that she was the one to develop a nerological condition.

Good to see that you can be positive when you want to be. Told you there was hope for you. I have read that developing a positive attitude and practicing it daily can add 8-10 years to your life. Remember that the next time Jake throws a WTF pass.

[Brandon]

At this point?

Whoever I select to back him up this year I'm not going to use to replace him, unless he really shows me something. There are some young options in the mid round in the draft.

What I'm saying is, neither of two extremes are good ideas. Doing everything in your power isn't smart, but not doing anything isn't either.

Keep an eye on Jason Campbell. If he doesn't strike a deal with the Skins to keep him in DC, we could make a play for him in 2010.

So you're throwing your arms around in the air about Jake when it's pointless, he's the best we can get for now. If you think Campbell is the answer, I hate to disappoint you. Down the stretch when he had more pressure on him to perform he broke down. He's no better than Jake and while I've defended him in the past, last year he did a fair enough job of proving me wrong.

[frash.exe]

I wasn't trying to compare them to Jake, just give examples of my point that it's tough to devote those kind of resources to talent at that position (Actually, to any depth when you have one of the highest paid QBs on earth like Indy does which is why I hate that way of building a team, but I digress). I thought you were more talking about backup rather than heir apparent as your use of "stronghold on the position" seems to suggest so I guess that's my bad. I do agree that it isn't impossible to have a decent backup (only that it's harder than at any other position on the field) and that Carolina hadn't in recent years, but I also think that Moore & McCown are capable. So I view them as improvements to that end. I am also not of the opinion that Fox and Hurney suck because they haven't had luck with any of those guys (backups), I just think it's that hard to do that I cut them some slack on it. Though I do admit I never thought Carr would be a good answer.

It is tough to field QB play. but still, so many teams try, and the way we look at it as if, well, some team spent a 2nd rounder on a QB and he didn't work out, so they wasted their pick. But they tried and failed, so what? That means they should never draft a QB again? I kinda meant a mix of both with "stronghold on the position". Brady and Manning are at risk for injury, of course. Every QB is, but they are the least likely to become inconsistent and put on a string of bad performances. Sometimes I see Jake can't even accumulate 50 yards passing in a half of football in like 15 pass attempts. Sometimes he's magical. Sometimes he's ineffective. Sometimes he throws a great deep pass and the WR's in the endzone. Sometimes he throws these erratic passes that get picked off. He does need to limit his mistakes if the team is going to get further. One X-factor here is Rip Scherer. He's definitely an upgrade over McCoy, but he didn't create miracles time after time in Cleveland.

Neither Fox nor Hurney suck overall, however QBing isn't their strong suit, and never has been. They help compensate in other areas, but QB is one position you really want to be proficient in.

[SloppyJoe]

I was, truly and honestly, trying to read this entire thread. At the halfway point of page 4 when it basically turned into name calling, I gave up, so forgive me if I re-hash something already said.

I don't think anyone out there is going to defend Jake's playoff performance. Worst I have EVER seen. But to discount everything he has done for this team would be foolish. I don't have the numbers in front of me, so don't quote me, but since 2002 (or close to it) Jake has led the most 4th quarter game tying or winning drives out of everyone in the entire league. That includes the likes of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. So to say the guy takes plays off is absurd. If you've seen the guy play, you know he is one of the biggest competitors on the field.

That being said, yeah he is getting old. But he is also recovering from Tommy John SURGERY. One that typically takes 1 1/2 to 2 YEARS to recover from. And he came back after just over one year.

The thing that I hate about his performance is that it took place during our last game of the year. So, with people having short memories and all, that is all they are going to remember. I'm sure half the people here forgot he even had surgery last year. So excuse me for not wanting to toss him to the street right away. As a lot of people have said, there aren't really any better options out there.

So I'm going to treat Delhomme EXACTLY like I am going to treat Fox this year. Delhomme (surgery, too much pressure on self) has a legitimate excuse for last year, just like Fox (Trgovac). So I'm going to give them one more, last chance. If they don't perform this year, then I'm going to be all aboard the "GET RID OF JAKE/FOX!!!!!11" train.

Until then, calm the f*ck down.

[SloppyJoe]

I was, truly and honestly, trying to read this entire thread. At the halfway point of page 4 when it basically turned into name calling, I gave up, so forgive me if I re-hash something already said.

I don't think anyone out there is going to defend Jake's playoff performance. Worst I have EVER seen. But to discount everything he has done for this team would be foolish. I don't have the numbers in front of me, so don't quote me, but since 2002 (or close to it) Jake has led the most 4th quarter game tying or winning drives out of everyone in the entire league. That includes the likes of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. So to say the guy takes plays off is absurd. If you've seen the guy play, you know he is one of the biggest competitors on the field.

That being said, yeah he is getting old. But he is also recovering from Tommy John SURGERY. One that typically takes 1 1/2 to 2 YEARS to recover from. And he came back after just over one year.

The thing that I hate about his performance is that it took place during our last game of the year. So, with people having short memories and all, that is all they are going to remember. I'm sure half the people here forgot he even had surgery last year. So excuse me for not wanting to toss him to the street right away. As a lot of people have said, there aren't really any better options out there.

So I'm going to treat Delhomme EXACTLY like I am going to treat Fox this year. Delhomme (surgery, too much pressure on self) has a legitimate excuse for last year, just like Fox (Trgovac). So I'm going to give them one more, last chance. If they don't perform this year, then I'm going to be all aboard the "GET RID OF JAKE/FOX!!!!!11" train.

Until then, calm the f*ck down.

[panthers55]

I was, truly and honestly, trying to read this entire thread. At the halfway point of page 4 when it basically turned into name calling, I gave up, so forgive me if I re-hash something already said.

I don't think anyone out there is going to defend Jake's playoff performance. Worst I have EVER seen. But to discount everything he has done for this team would be foolish. I don't have the numbers in front of me, so don't quote me, but since 2002 (or close to it) Jake has led the most 4th quarter game tying or winning drives out of everyone in the entire league. That includes the likes of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. So to say the guy takes plays off is absurd. If you've seen the guy play, you know he is one of the biggest competitors on the field.

That being said, yeah he is getting old. But he is also recovering from Tommy John SURGERY. One that typically takes 1 1/2 to 2 YEARS to recover from. And he came back after just over one year.

The thing that I hate about his performance is that it took place during our last game of the year. So, with people having short memories and all, that is all they are going to remember. I'm sure half the people here forgot he even had surgery last year. So excuse me for not wanting to toss him to the street right away. As a lot of people have said, there aren't really any better options out there.

So I'm going to treat Delhomme EXACTLY like I am going to treat Fox this year. Delhomme (surgery, too much pressure on self) has a legitimate excuse for last year, just like Fox (Trgovac). So I'm going to give them one more, last chance. If they don't perform this year, then I'm going to be all aboard the "GET RID OF JAKE/FOX!!!!!11" train.

Until then, calm the f*ck down.

I didn't quite get that. How about repeatng yourself a couple more times

[Jangler]

I was, truly and honestly, trying to read this entire thread. At the halfway point of page 4

If you change your options to 20 posts per page, the threads won't be as long...

[frash.exe]

So you're throwing your arms around in the air about Jake when it's pointless, he's the best we can get for now. If you think Campbell is the answer, I hate to disappoint you. Down the stretch when he had more pressure on him to perform he broke down. He's no better than Jake and while I've defended him in the past, last year he did a fair enough job of proving me wrong.

Well, one day, the question's going to force itself upon us of who's going to be the new QB to take us into the future if we don't start to take some action now. We're going to have to prepare ourselves for the day Delhomme retires.

Could that mean Moore's the answer? I don't know. Maybe he is. Then again, maybe our future QB isn't on the team. It doesn't hurt to bring in some alternate options to prepare for life after Delhomme. Some people think you can just throw a cheap option into the fire pit and he's going to give you 7 years of at least some stability like Delhomme did. We struck gold with Delhomme, that is the best thing that could've happened considering Fox's willingness to invest in QB, or lack thereof. But that doesn't happen all that often.

[SloppyJoe]

I know, right? That's what I get for trying to post anything longer than a sentence on my phone. It's ridiculous. I'm not even sure if this is going to be a double post....

[Fireball77]

It is tough to field QB play. but still, so many teams try, and the way we look at it as if, well, some team spent a 2nd rounder on a QB and he didn't work out, so they wasted their pick. But they tried and failed, so what? That means they should never draft a QB again?

I agree that would be a silly position for a team to take, but I am not sure that's their thought process.

Neither Fox nor Hurney suck overall, however QBing isn't their strong suit, and never has been. They help compensate in other areas, but QB is one position you really want to be proficient in.

Well I guess I look at it a bit differently. I think QB is the single hardest position to get right for many reasons, one of which is the difficulty in having resources enough to develop them, and there are far more failures than successes. I think it involves a bit of luck too. Who would you consider proficient in developing QBs, or what teams/coaches are a few of your models for what you would like to see?

That being said, yeah he is getting old. But he is also recovering from Tommy John SURGERY. One that typically takes 1 1/2 to 2 YEARS to recover from. And he came back after just over one year.

Less than a year actually. And it's such uncharted waters with a starting QB that to think he would be even close to 100% of his ability last year is a pie in the sky thought, IMO. People may call me an excuse maker, but heck we have seen fairly "routine" surgeries like ACLs cause players to not be themselves again until their second or third year back. No he's not elite, but certainly his playing with a bum arm and/or a recently repaired one since 2005 is a factor in some things.

[Nu Guns]

I was, truly and honestly, trying to read this entire thread. At the halfway point of page 4 when it basically turned into name calling, I gave up, so forgive me if I re-hash something already said.

I don't think anyone out there is going to defend Jake's playoff performance. Worst I have EVER seen. But to discount everything he has done for this team would be foolish. I don't have the numbers in front of me, so don't quote me, but since 2002 (or close to it) Jake has led the most 4th quarter game tying or winning drives out of everyone in the entire league. That includes the likes of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning."

Dont quote me either because I alsodont have the numbers in front of me, but I doubt all those come backs were NFL classics. Its not we were down by 20 or more points. If we are down by more 14 or more in the 4th, and have to totally rely on our passing game....people are leaving the stadium. Remember that game a few years ago Colts/Tampa. They were down by like 24 points in 4th. Jake cant do what manning does, lets not even pretend